MS460 crank question

[Ronie]

Are the 440 and the 460 cranks the same and if not is this a 460 crank?

 

[AlexStromberg]

According to Stihl SSC they do not use the same crank and that that isnt a complete part number so cant check it. But I have the Swedish SSC and the 440 doesnt even come up so i could be talking chit right now

 

[Ronie]

According to Stihl SSC they do not use the same crank and that that isnt a complete part number so cant check it. But I have the Swedish SSC and the 440 doesnt even come up so i could be talking chit right now

Thanks for checking, it's supposed to be a 460 crank and I just want to make sure.

 

[jacob j.]

Thanks for checking, it's supposed to be a 460 crank and I just want to make sure.

If you want to post a picture of the crank showing the overall length, we can determine if it's 044/440 or 046/460.

The 044/440 cranks are shorter overall because the case is narrower.

 

[Ronie]

If you want to post a picture of the crank showing the overall length, we can determine if it's 044/440 or 046/460.

The 044/440 cranks are shorter overall because the case is narrower.

Thanks, I'll get a pic

 

[Ronie]

If you want to post a picture of the crank showing the overall length, we can determine if it's 044/440 or 046/460.

The 044/440 cranks are shorter overall because the case is narrower.

Here's a few pics of it.

 

[Canadian farm boy]

That’s a 046/460/461 crank. You can tell by how thick the lobes are plus it has the groove for the snap ring on the pto side. 044/440 cranks have thinner lobes and no snap ring groove

 

[Ronie]

That’s a 046/460/461 crank. You can tell by how thick the lobes are plus it has the groove for the snap ring on the pto side. 044/440 cranks have thinner lobes and no snap ring groove

Thank you!

 

[drf256]

The snap ring gives it away. 460.

Anyone else notice the the PTO side slips in a 6202 with no resistance? I tried various 046/460 cranks and bearings and they were all the same.

 

[Funky sawman]

The snap ring gives it away. 460.

Anyone else notice the the PTO side slips in a 6202 with no resistance? I tried various 046/460 cranks and bearings and they were all the same.

Never seen that. Stihl makes a crank install tool for both sides to pull crank into bearing. All the 1128 series are interference fit. The 046 and 460 does use a proprietary bearing on the pto side

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

The snap ring gives it away. 460.

Anyone else notice the the PTO side slips in a 6202 with no resistance? I tried various 046/460 cranks and bearings and they were all the same.

Funny you should ask this. I’ve seen several 046/460 cranks that were spun. However, new or “low hour” cranks have not been slip fit for me. I just tried another in my shop and it’s an interference fit that requires heat (like most Stihl). Some Dolmar shafts were loose and may have used loctite or the like to keep them tight. I do not care for that concept.

As an aside, my dream saw would be a 660 crankshaft in everything 75cc+. 6203 bearings as well. I know the engineer in me says “it’s overkill and overpriced” to use, but I’ve been into too many saws that had crank issues with perfect pistons/cylinders. Type of use, oil (!), chain sharpening style and other factors play a role for sure.

 

[qurotro]

The snap ring gives it away. 460.

Anyone else notice the the PTO side slips in a 6202 with no resistance? I tried various 046/460 cranks and bearings and they were all the same.

I thought I was unlucky to buy a crank case assembly with the pto bearing spun! The crank is perfect until I split it.

 

[qurotro]

Funny you should ask this. I’ve seen several 046/460 cranks that were spun. However, new or “low hour” cranks have not been slip fit for me. I just tried another in my shop and it’s an interference fit that requires heat (like most Stihl). Some Dolmar shafts were loose and may have used loctite or the like to keep them tight. I do not care for that concept.

As an aside, my dream saw would be a 660 crankshaft in everything 75cc+. 6203 bearings as well. I know the engineer in me says “it’s overkill and overpriced” to use, but I’ve been into too many saws that had crank issues with perfect pistons/cylinders. Type of use, oil (!), chain sharpening style and other factors play a role for sure.

Stihl 038 uses 6203 at pto side. And that crank itself is stout.

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

They last forever, too.

 

[drf256]

Funny you should ask this. I’ve seen several 046/460 cranks that were spun. However, new or “low hour” cranks have not been slip fit for me. I just tried another in my shop and it’s an interference fit that requires heat (like most Stihl). Some Dolmar shafts were loose and may have used loctite or the like to keep them tight. I do not care for that concept.

As an aside, my dream saw would be a 660 crankshaft in everything 75cc+. 6203 bearings as well. I know the engineer in me says “it’s overkill and overpriced” to use, but I’ve been into too many saws that had crank issues with perfect pistons/cylinders. Type of use, oil (!), chain sharpening style and other factors play a role for sure.

Has happened to me in probably 10+ 046/460. So many times that I came to realize it’s probably the norm for the model.

None of the cranks were spun. Again, tried various combos, etc…. All the same.

Never experienced with any other Stihl model. Clearly YMMV, but just my observation.

 

[Shibby]

I had a 660 crank spin the case bushing/bearing. Rest of the saw was fine, such a bummer the case half was trashed because of something so simple.

 

[qurotro]

Has happened to me in probably 10+ 046/460. So many times that I came to realize it’s probably the norm for the model.

None of the cranks were spun. Again, tried various combos, etc…. All the same.

Never experienced with any other Stihl model. Clearly YMMV, but just my observation.

So... Is it ok to use those 046 cranks?
Obviously it spun a bit in the inner race.
The big end is smooth and tight. Shame I need to toss it.

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

I’ll defer. New 460 cranks are not a slip fit on new bearings. I’d love to chat with a Stihl engineer about those tolerances and why so many 76.5cc 1128s seem to be loose there.

JacobJ and others can chime in.

The one “loose” crank I’ve used was still tight cold-to-cold in the bearing. It was a 660 with 100s of hours. I used sleeve retainer (640?) and it’s held up with light or moderate use.

 

[BuckthornBonnie]

I had a 660 crank spin the case bushing/bearing. Rest of the saw was fine, such a bummer the case half was trashed because of something so simple.

I’ve seen this in other 1122s, yep. Those saws are typically pushed hard in big wood and have a ton of bf on the ground before they go.
It’s amazing how well a mag case (with or without a steel insert) can hold up in the conditions a saw can see in its lifetime.

 

[jacob j.]

So... Is it ok to use those 046 cranks?
Obviously it spun a bit in the inner race.
The big end is smooth and tight. Shame I need to toss it.
View attachment 356168

I’ll defer. New 460 cranks are not a slip fit on new bearings. I’d love to chat with a Stihl engineer about those tolerances and why so many 76.5cc 1128s seem to be loose there.

JacobJ and others can chime in.

The one “loose” crank I’ve used was still tight cold-to-cold in the bearing. It was a 660 with 100s of hours. I used sleeve retainer (640?) and it’s held up with light or moderate use.

Sleeve retainer is fine if you're rebuilding a saw and the new bearing isn't completely an interference fit. I've used Loctite 640 a few times and that stuff isn't a joke. You'll want to make sure
that you're not going to take those items apart again for a long while. If you do, you'll need heat.