ring & pinion seal replacement crush sleeve question

[r7000]

semi-off topic question, if anyone is interested in entertaining me I'd like to hear advice/perspective/experience from those who have messed with a pinion seal replacement on their rear axle.

for an 11.5" AAM axle in a 2005 gmc 3/4 ton 130k miles, I have the AAM 74020013 seal kit which comes with a new crush sleeve. My question is...
- remove both floating axles so only the carrier will be turning
- remove drive shaft
- rotate yoke using 10 - 100 inch-pound dial torque wrench to get current pinion bearing preload, expecting to be around 40 inch-lbs
- remove pinion nut and yoke...

necessary to do a new crush sleeve?

- re-using existing crush sleeve... we call it a crush sleeve, but why shouldn't we call it a solid spacer once it's been crushed and been set for the last 130k miles?

a crush sleeve requires 300+ ft-lbs so as I tighten the pinion nut using existing crush sleeve... using my 3/8" ratchet with 1/2" & 3/4" adapter to fit the 3/4" 36mm 12-point socket i'll just need as much to overcome the pinion+nut threads. Up until tightened back down to within idk ~0.002" of all the way to previous location I'm just needing hand torque to overcome the nut on the threads. I'm not going to move the crush sleeve any by hand with a 3/8 ratchet so there's no possibility of me further collapsing the crush sleeve. So then I should be able to reuse the existing crush sleeve and achieve the preload of ~40 inch-lbs or whatever I measured before disassembly. And then to achieve an acceptable compressive force so the outer bearings inner race is compressed against the existing crush sleeve I should be able to rotate the pinion nut with a 3/4" ratchet+ breaker like ~20° so the outer bearing while only going to an acceptable < ~45 inch-lb preload as measured by rotating with dial torque wrench. Where am I going wrong? I believe I can pull the outer bearing and pull the existing crush sleeve out and use a new crush sleeve but I'm not looking forward to having to crush that if I don't need to. I'm finding it difficult to understand why a new crush sleeve is truly warranted. The more I think about it with reusing the existing crush sleeve that I basically just need to tighten the pinion nut down by hand with a 3/8 or 1/2 ratchet as tight as possible, because that "crush sleeve" spacer aint gonna deflect a bit unless I torque well over 200 lb-ft which I won't be doing with a small 1/2 ratchet with 12" handle by hand

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[Al Smith]

There's a proceedure where you check the fit using grease patterns left on the ring gear .Too loose you aren't getting full mesh on the gears which eventually they will fail .Try google .However if I remember correctly the specs give the distance from the edge of the ring to the carrier for the pinion .try this ----https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=QIZqGNVP&id=2CEBF1724F5C51A9C4781A8DEB4E464E92BEC6C3&thid=OIP.QIZqGNVPCtYGfPxYmEuNFwHaEK&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fi.ytimg.com%2fvi%2f0P7MhCIADhY%2fmaxresdefault.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.40866a18d54f0ad6067cfc58984b8d17%3frik%3dw8a%252bkk5GTuuNGg%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=720&expw=1280&q=rear+axle+gear+pattern&simid=608049366106977422&FORM=IRPRST&ck=DA9AAFEBEAB73ADDB017244DB2ECA95F&selectedIndex=0&itb=0&idpp=overlayview&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0

 

[64poncho]

The massive torque it takes to deflect the crush sleeve is what keeps the pinion nut tight. Some one makes a kit to replace the crush sleeve with a spacer / shim kit, once you have the bearing preload set with the new spacer, then it’s
straight torque on the pinion nut.

 

[r7000]

@ Al - what you mention I am not at all concerned with, it's an axle with 130k miles on it that is trouble free. The existing gear pattern is fine, I don't need to check it, there's no reason (unless you can convince me otherwise) that me doing a pinion seal will change that... at most the gear pattern could only change because I don't retighten the pinion nut enough but that won't be the case, given what I elaborate on next...

@ poncho - this is what I'm trying to sanity check, the massive torque which I won't be achieving by hand using a regular 1/2" ratchet without a breaker. so I would achieve somewhere between 100-150 lb-ft of torque... let's say I used my 1/2" torque wrench to know even, then can we say...

- I am not crushing the crush sleeve any more, we can be pretty sure of that,
- the existing crush sleeve dimension that has been correct since assembly by the manufacturer and the last 130k miles will prevent me from overtightening by hand the pinion nut where I would have too much preload [this is the main concern], and
- unless I myself am a tool and under tighten the pinion nut there won't be a case where not enough preload or gear pattern change,
- so if I tighten the pinion nut to 100-200 lb-ft then does it stand to reason then... to properly re-tighten the pinion nut when using an existing crush sleeve based on what i've said on an axle that's been fine with it for 130k miles that all you need to do is sufficiently simply tighten the pinion nut back down?
- then is the only debatable argument now.... is ~150 lb-rt of torque on the pinion nut not enough to achieve the pinion nut tight of enough pressure on the two bearing inner races against the existing crush sleeve? Ok, 200, 250 then? What number below that ~300 number that it does take to achieve crushing of the crush sleeve? I also won't mention what looks like red locktite on the new pinion nut threads that came in the AAM 74020013 seal kit. So i'm skeptical on the justification being the need to keep the pinion nut from moving.
- is it correct to say: an existing crush sleeve that's been collapsed the correct amount that has been in service is effectively a sold spacer if you don't further crush it by over tightening the nut, which you simply are not gonna do without a breaker bar or some big air tool?

[insert change my mind meme pic]

 

[redline4]

If all you are doing is replacing the pinion seal, remove the driveshaft.
With a punch put a dimple on the pinion, nut and yoke that form a straight line.
Remove nut, washer, yoke, replace seal.
Line up yoke with mark on pinion.
Tighten nut to the point the marks line up. Go maybe 1/16" to 1/8" past.
Top off fluid and reinstall driveshaft.

 

[Al Smith]

Well why didn't you say so ?--you've got google I suppose -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBpxR8afzrE

 

[Shane¹]

If all you are doing is replacing the pinion seal, remove the driveshaft.
With a punch put a dimple on the pinion, nut and yoke that form a straight line.
Remove nut, washer, yoke, replace seal.
Line up yoke with mark on pinion.
Tighten nut to the point the marks line up. Go maybe 1/16" to 1/8" past.
Top off fluid and reinstall driveshaft.

This is exactly how I would do it as well done a lot of them that way never had an issue.

 

[GMB74]

Ditto on what Redline4 and Shane1 have written.
It may not be how an engineer would do it, but that's how it gets done
All day every day in every shop in the USA.

 

[r7000]

I don't want to follow the science and do it the way everyone else does it simply because that's what everyone does. I want to understand what's actually in play.

and to say "just put a dimple on the nut" is easier said than done. how easy to do you think it could be to be off a 1 (or more) complete nut rotations, given the fine thread pitch of the pinion/nut, which I think is 30mm x 2.0; it takes a 36mm 12-point socket. a course pitch is 30 x 3.5mm. So be totally accurate having to count rotations of the nut taking it off, while under the truck, using a 3' breaker bar, no thanks. From what I have being trying to eleborate on, i should not have to count nut rotations, it won't matter re-tightening by hand.

thus far no one has provided any sound argument refuting my statements/questions.

"All day every day in every shop in the USA"

and why do people loathe bringing their car in for service, even to the dealer?

 

[redline4]

How about you just do it however you want then seeing I have no clue what I am talking about.

 

[mainer_in_ak]

How about you just do it however you want then seeing I have no clue what I am talking about.

You being a skilled technician with decades of experience, you are devolving your lineage spilling words on a clueless dude who has the audacity sht to on yer advice.

 

[redline4]

You being a skilled technician with decades of experience, you are devolving your lineage spilling words on a clueless dude who has the audacity sht to on yer advice.

To be fair, the internet always gives a large amount of anomininity. For all he knows I could just be some crackhead with a stolen chrome vanadium 7/16" wrench.

 

[mainer_in_ak]

To be fair, the internet always gives a large amount of anomininity. For all he knows I could just be some crackhead with a stolen chrome vanadium 7/16" wrench.

To be fair, you could also be a baller, shot caller, 20" blades on the impala.

 

[redline4]

To be fair, you could also be a baller, shot caller, 20" blades on the impala.

Very true.
I can also wish I was a little bit taller.

I could even go as far as wishing I had a rabbit in a hat with a bat and a six four Impala.
But to quote the late ODB, I'm just Dirt Dog trying' to make some money
So give me my streaks and gimme my honey

 

[mainer_in_ak]

Very true.
I can also wish I was a little bit taller.

I could even go as far as wishing I had a rabbit in a hat with a bat and a six four Impala.
But to quote the late ODB, I'm just Dirt Dog trying' to make some money
So give me my streaks and gimme my honey

Wtf, now that corny 90s jam is stuck in my head. Son of a btch......

 

[r7000]

To be fair, you could also be a baller, shot caller, 20" blades on the impala.

wow that song made it into interior alaska?