Modifying a climb-saw's handlebars for more stiffness? (jamming wedges in to eliminate anti-vibe)

[Cerberus]

I use 2 climbing/top-handled saws, 25cc and 32cc (12" and 16"), anyway my 25cc is my favorite saw ever to use it is so stiff, my 32cc on the other hand is one of the sloppiest saws I've ever owned.

The 25cc isn't really designed for anti-vibe there's only 1 mount for AV and it does little, the 32cc has 'annular buffers' or whatever those AV things/grommets/rubber-gaskets & springs at all 3 of the handlebar connections to the powerhead...it wobbles so badly!!!

Am thinking to just cut-to-fit maybe 2-3 chunks of super hard rubber (motor-mount rubber blocks carved to fit) to use as wedges in-between the powerhead and the handlebars, just slap some JB weld or epoxy on them and jam them in-between the handlebars // powerhead to effectively eliminate movement / make it a zero-antivibe saw....is this dumb / am I setting-up for unforeseen consequences? Maybe once you get past 25cc you really do need some AV? Thanks for any input!!

PS- anyone ever seen kits/mods to put wraparound bars on a top-handle? My immediate thought is "it'd be bulky" but can't shake the idea that a few key handlebar mods would make certain cuts far, far easier to work-through!!

 

[Dub11]

What saw are you wanting to do this to? I remember vaguely someone making an aluminum replacement for the AV system of a saw. If possible find some aluminum or hard plastic rod to replace soft AV.

 

[Wonkydonkey]

I dunno what saw that’s got sloppy av mounts,,, I’m not saying China av's is better but it’s usually harder !

that’s if they do them for ur saw.

oh and av mounts are good thing . White finger, aka hand and vibration syndrome is not nice..

 

[lehman live edge slab]

If the mounts got oil soaked and degraded then just replacing the mounts will stiffen it back up, and I’m pretty sure it’s the Stihl ms 200t that they make the machined aluminum at mount replacement for the lower handle mount to chassis. So I’m sure we’re talking different saws because a 200tbis 35cc

 

[lehman live edge slab]

A standard Stihl 020av is 32cc with rubber mounts but they are rather stiff unless oil soaked

 

[Lightning Performance]

I never liked the solid mount I made for the 200T. I do like the spring mount I made from a 6401 top AV mount cut down. It handles the 16" very well in white oak and locust.

 

[Stump Shot]

Check your AV's out, some may need replacement. Fairly common on small saw's.

 

[Cerberus]

What saw are you wanting to do this to? I remember vaguely someone making an aluminum replacement for the AV system of a saw. If possible find some aluminum or hard plastic rod to replace soft AV.

Tanaka "TCS33EDTP" a 32cc amazon-special (made by 'Hitachi') Got it used and badly-broken from some jerk I'd climbed for when he couldn't pay me in-full lol, he was sure it was dead and I was convinced I could fix it and, in doing so, actually got 'ahead' on payment for the job (one that I'd otherwise have taken a loss on!)

It's got the metal-spring where the handlebar meets the side, then rubber AV on the two top-interfaces for the handlebar//powerhead mountings.

 

[Cerberus]

I dunno what saw that’s got sloppy av mounts,,, I’m not saying China av's is better but it’s usually harder !

that’s if they do them for ur saw.

oh and av mounts are good thing . White finger, aka hand and vibration syndrome is not nice..

Touche, hadn't really considered it's 1/3rd more vibration than my usual climb-saw (25cc) And I didn't mean it *came* with sloppy AV I mean it's sloppy now, thing is old was a recent, extensive renovation & modification project
After reading this/contemplating white-finger I'm now thinking *some* AV is good, THANKFULLY my method here would allow me to choose just how restrictive I want the wedges to be, maybe even use 2 types of rubber (ie a base/foundation that fully-restricts the 'outermost' 1/3rd of slop/cushion, a soft/cushy rubber the next 1/3rd and leave the top 1/3rd open, this'd allow for a lil open-movement, then quick cushioning on the soft rubber, while preventing the extent of wiggle that's currently the problem!) I know I'd said "wedge" rubber in-between handlebar//powerhead interfaces but really I can use(make) thinner rubber wedges that are thin enough they'll only touch 1 surface, the epoxy I use will be enough even on just 1 surface I know as I've used this rubber & this epoxy to make 'feeties' for my climb saws (for when you get down and clunk your saw to the ground, or at least I do and sometimes that's a driveway, hated banging the plastic body of the powerhead so put feet on, gotta say I'm surprised it's not a routine/OEM thing although I guess I'd say the same about felling-sights )

 

[Cerberus]

If the mounts got oil soaked and degraded then just replacing the mounts will stiffen it back up, and I’m pretty sure it’s the Stihl ms 200t that they make the machined aluminum at mount replacement for the lower handle mount to chassis. So I’m sure we’re talking different saws because a 200tbis 35cc

Never had a 20/200/201, I don't wanna get hung for saying-so but I'd sooner buy an echo 355t (and plan to, when this 32cc Tanaka tcs33edtp dies and I'm once-again in need of a heavier-duty climb saw) IF it were a decade ago and it were original 200's from the shelf maybe I'd reconsider but not for a 201 that needs mods or a used 200

At any rate thanks a TON for posting, just being able to google to find the part you're talking about will be of great use as I'm sure it'll be something I can adapt/mickey-mouse into my saw!!

 

[Wonkydonkey]

Thanks for your reply, I'm happy you understand white finger now... I had it many yrs ago whilst being a passenger on a old Japanese motorcycle. I got it holding onto the parts that were directly on the frame. But that was when it was unknown or less known about...
Fast forward 30yrs I’ve a 044 I just rebuilt. Somehow I got it (white finger) from this saw. It’s Not funny.
So I changed the av mounts and left one particular one out..
ask me tomorrow, or maybe I will tell you if it worked...and hopefully I will post a vid, as I will be using it for cookie cutting as I want to put some time on this saw..

 

[Cerberus]

Thanks for your reply, I'm happy you understand white finger now... I had it many yrs ago whilst being a passenger on a old Japanese motorcycle. I got it holding onto the parts that were directly on the frame. But that was when it was unknown or less known about...
Fast forward 30yrs I’ve a 044 I just rebuilt. Somehow I got it (white finger) from this saw. It’s Not funny.
So I changed the av mounts and left one particular one out..
ask me tomorrow, or maybe I will tell you if it worked...and hopefully I will post a vid, as I will be using it for cookie cutting as I want to put some time on this saw..

Thanks again, am actually going to google a bit more on it (have a climb at noon so 3hrs to kill.....gotta love when it's like "oh I'll be home to open the gates at high-noon/peak-sunlight" lol) as I was moving-towards a full "no-AV" setup on my 3 climbsaws, am still going to stiffen them up (have already begun actually...an xacto kit and some rubber motor-mounts like for vehicle engines are perfect, super quick/easy/effective to just cut wedges-to-fit and jam-up most/all of any particular AV bushing/spring!)

How long did the white-finger stay after you'd stopped on that motorcycle? I expect I'm VERY susceptible, as I spent several years without a license/vehicle and, in that time, worked nearly every day commuting by bicycle and rode a super-stiff 'fixed-gear' racing bike, I loved it[riding that bike, not being w/o vehicle ;P ] but jeebus was doing everything wrong in this context: tires kept super-stiff, super-thin handlebar tape and even a phase of no tape/just-steel, and w/ that particular form of riding there's no hand-brakes you are just using your feet&hands (and upper thighs I guess) to control the bike's acceleration/deceleration, could certainly feel it wracking my wrists badly over-time and it's been years since I 'fought my way back' to a vehicle/license/real-life but my wrists are still terrible like always a low-level pain, easily injured, can crack/click the joints in them in all kinds of random ways, would guess the scar-tissue in my hands&wrists is in the upper echelons of humans in the western world LOL!

Knowing more about white-finger is very important to me, thanks again Can't help but think of / be thankful for Reg Coates' 2 videos on repetitive injuries & what excessive double-rope-style climbing can cause to one's neck & their arms from elbows-down! Can't help but chuckle at the fact that I'm typing this at my "ergonomic" standing workstation with hunched-shoulders because I need to reset the keyboard height after moving things like a week ago

 

[lehman live edge slab]

The Tanaka/hitachi saws are heavy turds I’ve worked on a couple. Much rather have a ms193/194t with a muffler mod and timing advance for around 340$ new personally. Much lighter better balance and more power

 

[Wonkydonkey]

Ahh I had forgotten about the white finger till, you reminded me,

a few hrs I guess, it was very painful at first as I was holding on for longer than I would of than if I’d be using a chainsaw. The next day was fine. but it’s one of them things, you remember last time very soon if it starts to happen again.

 

[Lightning Performance]

The Tanaka/hitachi saws are heavy turds I’ve worked on a couple. Much rather have a ms193/194t with a muffler mod and timing advance for around 340$ new personally. Much lighter better balance and more power

Agreed!
Owned one and fixed one.
Sold my Tanaka clunky turd in a week.
Not worth modding imo

 

[lehman live edge slab]

Buddy still has his but it never gets used, even after fitting the cat muffler and some other work it didn’t have any power. Always runs hot and didn’t like to restart in warm weather even tuned fat. The only reason he tried one is it was 129$ new

 

[Cerberus]

The Tanaka/hitachi saws are heavy turds I’ve worked on a couple. Much rather have a ms193/194t with a muffler mod and timing advance for around 340$ new personally. Much lighter better balance and more power

Do you post to youtube under this handle? Swear I've seen videos by you!!

For $350 you could also just get the 355t though, heck I got a 194t and returned it, spent the same-exact price on my 355t (and I wouldn't trade that for a 201t, let alone a 194!!)

Will say it is a heavy turd though!! I use a ~7lbs 10" 25cc for most of my work and swap to my 36cc/8lbs/18" for bigger stuff, the tanaka (w/ a 14" now) is basically my backup saw, though it runs quite well (and is plenty powerful) it's just too heavy for its displacement!

Buddy still has his but it never gets used, even after fitting the cat muffler and some other work it didn’t have any power. Always runs hot and didn’t like to restart in warm weather even tuned fat. The only reason he tried one is it was 129$ new

Hmmm feel like some things are being conflated here.... chunky tanaka top-handles are $230....would NEVER recommend someone buy one...g2500 clones are about $130 new though, and those are a different story WAY better machines than tanakas I mean comparable power-per-cc but far smarter engineering (lighter weights, smaller form-factor) FWIW all of my saws are modded, some saws respond better than others and will say the tanaka was a 'strong responder' to airbox/muffler mods, if those weren't done I could definitely see complaints (and even running-hot, as they're just especially choked-up saws OEM) but with those done mine is powerful and never gets hotter than it should, cannot distinguish it from my other saws on a displacement-basis (obviously the weight and form-factor of the unit are another story entirely!!)

 

[lehman live edge slab]

I’m sorry I offended you but I do stand by the hitachi being a heavy turd even after the air box and muffler mod which I did to this saw. Completely gutted the catalytic converter and opened it up with retune. That saw at 35cc isn’t even in the same realm as a ms 200, 201 or husqvarna 540t mark 2. The 25cc echo is awesome haven’t run any larger echos to comment about them. I’m sure my tree buddy will let you have his hitachi for cheap if you want it. He says isn’t even good enough for a back up he uses a 200t,193t and 194t for main saws and unless it’s a big tree the 193 and 194 is all he uses. 16” .43 picco bar and chain and yes all 3 saws have muffler mods and timing advance.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

No you tube videos at all

 

[Al Smith]

I own two Ms 200t's,one modified and one stock .I've lost track of how many 020 and 200T's I've worked on owned by others .This is the first time I've ever heard of people saying they are sloppy .I'll have to think about that a little bit