How much more hinge wood for dead trees?

[davidwyby]

I realize there are a lot of variables...

Most of what I cut is dead, and I've had some try to get away due to insufficient holding wood.

Thanks

 

[jacob j.]

I usually just make a judgement based on what I see in the snag at the time I'm sizing it up. Deeper face cuts can be an advantage in certain situations with snags, especially if
they've lost a lot of their limbs or top and don't have that weight or inertia to help pull them over. Insect activity or a catface in the stump can also dictate how much holding wood
you need.

 

[davidwyby]

https://opeforum.com/threads/how-do-i-drop-these-without-breaking-them.24616/page-2#post-1281251

 

[angelo c]

I like to start with a smaller down cut (trad) or up( Humboldt) and watch what the chips tell you. Rotten dead crumbs/insects/dirt ect or good solid chips. Adjust the depth of the face from there. Wedges and ropes are your friends. Use em.

 

[davidwyby]

I like to start with a smaller down cut (trad) or up( Humboldt) and watch what the chips tell you. Rotten dead crumbs/insects/dirt ect or good solid chips. Adjust the depth of the face from there. Wedges and ropes are your friends. Use em.

I pull stuff over a lot.

https://opeforum.com/threads/salt-cedar-athel-tree-tamarix-aphylla-demo-fun.23211/

but I’d like to get better at felling without those assists. My issue is hinges breaking when wedging. I think a deeper back cut helps, puts the hinge in the middle of the tree diameter so it is wider. I was googling and somewhere a guy said his rule of thumb for dead wood was twice as much hinge as normal. I suppose I could start there and cut as needed.

 

[Wonkydonkey]

It somthing you learn, as Angelo said, when cutting you looking at the chips and the colour coming out. Is it nice clean stuff or dead dry dusty stuff. If the former a std hinge, if the latter a thicker hinge. If the tree has weight up top this will help the felling once it starts to go. If it’s a stick then it will need some help ie a rope up the tree if you want a thick hinge. But to add another part to the jigsaw you can cut a letter box in the front.

if you aim for the std notch/face cut 20\25% hinge 10/20% back cut 70\60% . Then you can slightly adjust as you go..
And like Angelo said there’s nothing wrong smacking a wedge in and cutting the hinge bit by bit.
Then there’s the stacking up the wedges. Ie you've cut the tree to where you think the hinge should be in thickness if one wedge is almost in the stack two and bang them in (top one a bit then the bottom one a bit etc)

so your sticks in the other thread should have been slightly thicker hinge and two stack wedges…or a rope.

it’s not a simple thing to learn because it’s a variable thing to learn.. but as you learn and get better you will just want to do it the quickest way.

 

[JB-PlantHeirloom]

I wrap almost all trees with a chain or strap (small trees) and it tends to keep dead trees together until they hit the ground and avoid barber chairs and slabs of the tree falling off on me. I like using an open face cut, about 1/4 of the way in for small trees under 6" and maybe up to 1/3" for bigger sound trees. Then get a wedge in the back cut, as people mention, even if it is only a small 5" stuck in from both sides. If the tree is rotted or hollow, I go in maybe 2" with an open face cut, stand the tree with wedges while back cutting it, and pull it over with a truck or winch, so, I am no where near it when it falls.

 

[Catbuster]

I usually look at the condition of the tree first, which most of the time is a good start as to how I’m going to take an overall approach to any tree. But it’s tough to tell until you’re cutting. Once you see some chips it’s all about making your adjustments based on them. Snags are not something to be rushed. Take your time and do it right.

 

[JB-PlantHeirloom]

I sent a forum member a large 25 MB video of me cutting down a large oak, here is one of a large dead pine.

tree 01 cutting dropping tree at horse farm
https://rumble.com/vlsfac-tree-01-cutting-dropping-tree-at-horse-farm-qrz-jesus.mp4.html

 

[davidwyby]

Here in there desert I rarely encounter rot or hollow centers…it’s usually dead, dry, solid, and hard…so the hinges are dry and brittle and don’t hold or hinge, just snap off.

Seems like the gist of what you guys are saying is what I’ve done…notch it, back cut a little, and pull it.

 

[jmester]

As the wood dries from being dead it loses it elasticity. Which causes alot of failed hinges. Thick or fat hinges help to combat the lose of elasticity, but in no way is a fail safe against losing the tree.

Dead trees can be wedged. Takes time as you have to worry about knocking limbs off as you drive the wedges.

Do you compensate your hinge thickness? For example the tree has crown lean to the left which would make the left side of the tree in compression and right tension. I would want the tension side of the hinge to be a bit thicker to help over come the lean and drift to the left because of the weight headed out that way.

Hope it makes sense

 

[davidwyby]

Excellent point, sir!

 

[~WBF]

more or less

 

[Brufab]

The scariest trees I have cut lately are dead ash over 6". Really can't use a wedge and there is literally no hinge technique I have found to work other than hoping the lean of tree is where you want it to fall. I could be really stupid lol but the back cut no matter how deep to face or hinge will yield different results some trees balance on nothing and wedge has no effect also becareful of tree snapping in half anywhere from ground to crown. Had scary stuff happen and always need 1 or more spotters while guy is felling the tree.

 

[davidwyby]

@Brufab Depending on logistics, it might be good to drag a ladder around and hook up a rope and puller. Or one of those screw pushers I’ve seen the Europeans like @Finnlogger use.

 

[davidwyby]

I don’t know what you’d call it, but what about an extra tall face cut? Then 3 back cuts into it. Since the wood is not elastic, make the hinge longer/taller so there are 3 points for the wood to flex a little.

 

[Duce]

The scariest trees I have cut lately are dead ash over 6". Really can't use a wedge and there is literally no hinge technique I have found to work other than hoping the lean of tree is where you want it to fall. I could be really stupid lol but the back cut no matter how deep to face or hinge will yield different results some trees balance on nothing and wedge has no effect also becareful of tree snapping in half anywhere from ground to crown. Had scary stuff happen and always need 1 or more spotters while guy is felling the tree.

Have my neighbor use his excavator, couple scoops if any, push it over, grab it with thumb and cut stump off, done. He makes it look easy and super fast.

 

[Brufab]

Once you back cut and do another back cut the wedges become useless they wood will compress and you lose all leverage

 

[Brufab]

Wedges work as long as you only have 1 back cut. Alot of power in a small piece of plastic and a hand sledge

 

[fearofpavement]

Almost all trees I cut are in a residential setting and most dead trees we won't mess with. It's almost impossible to control a dead tree and I've had them fold up in various ways. I just recommend they get someone with a bucket truck to nibble it down from the top. Pulling or climbing a dead tree is a pretty good means to get that way yourself. "dead".