Base gasket delete ??s

[HuskyHead]

Alright so I’ll ask a question that has been asked before I am sure. Also if it’s not in the right location please move. So I’ve been looking and reading about base gasket deletes. So far I understand that I’ll need to check squish after removing the factory gasket using thin solder in the .025-.030” range. Look for nothing tighter than .020”. I am sure the best solution is to machine the jug to fit to correct or desired height. So my question is if I remove the factory gasket what’s the preferred gasket solution? Obviously there are varying thoughts on the best sealant Loctite 515/18, Threebond1184, Yama/Hondabond,Motoseal, Dirko, but what about making your own thin gasket? I’ve seen things ranging from paper to aluminum cans (see picture below, not mine nabbed from Google). I assume if you make your own gasket you’ll still need to place a thin layer of sealer on one or both sides of the homemade gasket? Which is best or preferred? Also I might have access to a 3D printer wonder if I could make one out heat resistant polymer(plastic)? Also I’ll be doing this to a MS440(B4 a ride to @huskihl) and maybe my 550Mk2.

 

[Ford3000]

Some talk here on which sealer to use.
https://opeforum.com/threads/what-sealant-to-use-for-365xp-base-gasket-delete.17354/

 

[HuskyHead]

Some talk here on which sealer to use.
https://opeforum.com/threads/what-sealant-to-use-for-365xp-base-gasket-delete.17354/

Right and I’ll probably pickup any of those options that are available locally to me but I am wondering about what’s the advantage of no gasket or making your own thin gasket? Guessing I did not phrase my first post the best.

 

[Nutball]

3D printers work by melting plastic, so you'd need a high temp printer with nylon or I think polycarbonate.

 

[Ford3000]

Well you will have to go with the numbers, if no gasket will allow adequate squish band clearance,
then use one of the products mentioned on the link I posted above, the different qualities are discussed.
You can make a gasket out of a coke can, if it will measure up and leave you with the correct clearance,
and use one of the thinner sealers, use a proper torque wrench and procedure to torque down the cylinder,
and check again after the saw is heartened up and allowed to cool again.

 

[Al Smith]

I suppose a beer can gasket would work as well as a Coke can .For that matter the cover from National Geographic would work as well as the centerfold from Playboy . I'm a fan of gaskets not sealants myself but to each their own .
Gaskets themselves are not hard to make .I've done them from printer paper carb gaskets to 1/4" thick cork oil pan gaskets for Caterpillar oil pans .The later just takes a lot longer .

 

[Dolkitafreak]

Alright so I’ll ask a question that has been asked before I am sure. Also if it’s not in the right location please move. So I’ve been looking and reading about base gasket deletes. So far I understand that I’ll need to check squish after removing the factory gasket using thin solder in the .025-.030” range. Look for nothing tighter than .020”. I am sure the best solution is to machine the jug to fit to correct or desired height. So my question is if I remove the factory gasket what’s the preferred gasket solution? Obviously there are varying thoughts on the best sealant Loctite 515/18, Threebond1184, Yama/Hondabond,Motoseal, Dirko, but what about making your own thin gasket? I’ve seen things ranging from paper to aluminum cans (see picture below, not mine nabbed from Google). I assume if you make your own gasket you’ll still need to place a thin layer of sealer on one or both sides of the homemade gasket? Which is best or preferred? Also I might have access to a 3D printer wonder if I could make one out heat resistant polymer(plastic)? Also I’ll be doing this to a MS440(B4 a ride to @huskihl) and maybe my 550Mk2.

If the 440 is going to huskihl just leave the gasket, he will cut the band and base to build compression, and the mk2 winds up well under .020" with no gasket, leave it in.

 

[HuskyHead]

If the 440 is going to huskihl just leave the gasket, he will cut the band and base to build compression, and the mk2 winds up well under .020" with no gasket, leave it in.

Yea all good options and opinions and I’ll probably just do that. But for now my curiosity has me tempted enough to almost want to try it for myself.

 

[BlacknTan]

I've been contemplating this myself for some time...
The gasket I used on the 357 cylinder measured .018. I couldn't find any gasket material thinner than 1/64, or .015. I'm not sure about gluing the cylinder to the crankcase, but I know that guys who know alot more on the subject than I do actually do it. I guess what concerns me most is removing the stuff is replacement, or disassembly is required.
Facing the bottom of the cylinder the desired amount with a gasket seems the best solution to me, or taking down the mating surface of the crankcase. But, I'm speaking as an old car guy, not a knowledgeable two stroke tech.

 

[Al Smith]

Because I've never deleted a gasket I'm not certain how much actual good it would do .With a Stihl base gasket it measures around 20 thou thick .Replace it with sealant it might decrease by 17-19 thou if that much .So for example on a Stihl 038 Mag with an original clearance of 45-46 thou you might have 30 thou .To take it down to 22- 23 or so you still need to cut the cylinder base .---now of course I for one can say that having a small machine shop but know full well not everybody will have .

 

[Ketchup]

I did a lot of gasket shenanigans before I got a lathe. I usually use ThreeBond 1184 but most any liquid gasket will do the job. With hand-made gaskets of various thickness I like to coat some materials with a layer of liquid gasket or metal paint. I find having a true gasket preferable because I can take the saw apart and reassemble much more quickly. A little oil on the mating surfaces doesn’t seem to effect gaskets sealing, but it wreaks havoc on a liquid gasket.

It takes a little time to figure out what material will get you the right thickness and how to apply it. Any DIY gasket should be torqued down and the squish measured after install. Paper and rubber gaskets often crush slightly when installed.

Here are some of my standard materials and their adhesives:

Aluminum can: .003”-.006” (metal paint)
Manilla folder: .010” (1184)
Autoparts Paper Gasket Material (thin): .015”-.018” (1184)
Steel stock (expensive): many thicknesses, I have .008”, .012” and .015” (aerosol rubber or metal paint)
Card stock: .008”, .012” (1184)

For full deletes I usually use ThreeBond 1184. Sets slowly, so I don’t have to rush and doesn’t run. I have also used Yama-bond. It’s easier to clean off, but runny and sets up more quickly.

In general a gasket is better than no gasket though thin paper gaskets may not be worth the time and fuss. My favorites are metal coated in rubber.

0.018” to .022” is typically the squish sweet spot for most saws. .020” is relatively conservative. I do lots of small saws at .016”. Large displacement and high rpm saws usually do better around .022”-.025”.

Just my experiences.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

I've been contemplating this myself for some time...
The gasket I used on the 357 cylinder measured .018. I couldn't find any gasket material thinner than 1/64, or .015. I'm not sure about gluing the cylinder to the crankcase, but I know that guys who know alot more on the subject than I do actually do it. I guess what concerns me most is removing the stuff is replacement, or disassembly is required.
Facing the bottom of the cylinder the desired amount with a gasket seems the best solution to me, or taking down the mating surface of the crankcase. But, I'm speaking as an old car guy, not a knowledgeable two stroke tech.

Trust me I'm no professional, but I've done a bunch of base gasket deletes . Just be patient and take extra steps and care to clean surfaces. I have a 441 and an 034S I absolutely love that both have Yamabond as gasket.

 

[Ronie]

I guess what concerns me most is removing the stuff is replacement, or disassembly is required.

I use some scotch brite with a little break cleaner and Hondabond comes right off, it's easier to remove than an old stuck on gasket..

 

[Al Smith]

I've misread the micrometers every so often and made head knockers .Then the hunt for a thicker gasket material follows .Actual crankcase pressure is rather low so just about anything will work except sponge rubber or cork .For that matter I wouldn't suggest an old inner tube either .Humor intended