High Quality Chainsaw Bars Husqvarna Toys Hockfire Saws

Bad brakes spongy tried everything 1997 K1500 Z71

Lightning Performance

Here For The Long Haul!
Local time
4:26 PM
User ID
677
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
10,991
Reaction score
28,051
Location
East of Philly
TLDR unless you would like to help.
I'm not much in a fun mood and I already have several train wrecks in my lap now, so save it for another thread, Please... and tia IF you don't give a hiddy hoe GFY then please again, let it be, k.



















Pretty pissed about may things today. Great way to start my week. *s-word is piling up and TN looks like a bust for me this year. I do three things a year for myself and this is the third one. Figure it out.

Well, my rear brake line went that I had replaced by a "friend" hum. He replaced half the brake line from front to back I now find out, the lazy baaastard. The front half was worse on the top than the portion I saw that came out from behind the fuel tank that pin-holed last year. Last time he ever touches anything of ours. This will be the second safety issue. These are things you don't *f-word up or people can die. Are we clear? Good. He worked on my wife's car before and left bolts out I found later. Not to mention other *s-word and swamped one of my boats years ago. He left the drain plug in for four days of rain and the cover off in his yard on the trailer. He needed my spare starter out of the cabin so I got three feet of water in it then It froze. Found it three weeks later with a foot of ice on the top. Great guy. My mistake for thinking he was a good guy and just made a mistake with the boat. He don't give two *s-words I figured out after getting *f-worded again on this mechanical work. He did this job just before the wife's car he *f-worded up at his shop. Plus Just got burned on a few other deals and then ignored after complaining. You men are my last resort to fix this prick or go find a new repair shop soon.
This might sounds weird but, I don't have any friends to ask. Don't have any friends anymore. They became too expensive, full of *s-word, do me wrong on work, lie or don't ever want to pay for anything. Or, the best ones always call with some ridiculous favor that will cost me a day or more labor and some money. I have given them up and moved on, for real. They just used me. Just stopped contacting them. None have called this year or came around when I stopped the "favors" Some have disappeared more than two years ago. Many owe me money. They all made deals with me and owe time but they never showed up. It is just me and the misses now working on the kitchen and keeping everything going. We do all our own everything now. We never call anyone for anything. It's rough but it work's for us most times. Rant done.

Replaced the rotten line laying in the drive at home :mad: and bleed them after getting the brake light out and took a ride to give the ABS a few heart attacks. Bleed it again. Very little air in the ABS pump that time. Had some air in the left rear, just a spit or two of air. The brakes have gotten nothing but worse. Bleed a pint through it with my wife, she knows how to foot bleed brakes better than most men. I did every flare nut on the rear end all the way to the front and the wheel cylinders, again and again. They just get worse but no air. Pulled the rear apart and went over everything. Good to go just had froze adjusters like always. The volume is there but I don't have a test gauge anymore, stolen, to use at the wheel. I would not know where it should be with ABS anyway. Strange thing my brakes have always sucked since he fixed it last time. I said something and the response was, "they just need to break in right." I thought that is BS! Dismissed it as he was drunk at the time as being a wise ass. I/we all know better.

Anyway.... I find no wear on the rear brakes with over 12K driving and a little light towing. I'm sure under a heavy load it would have shown up. I just figured these trucks went through front brakes ever fifteen to twenty thousand just like the older ones did. I have replaced the front pads four five times in a hundred thousand miles. Rear brakes once. It has been that way since I bought it. Now they are spongy and really suck. Not much rear brakes. Emergency brake has a little more bite that the hydros. I'm no novice here and only had him do the line because I was replacing everything on the front but calipers that day. The next week the rear brakes all got replaced with new shoes and wheel cylinders. At that time they felt about the same before and after wheel cylinders, shoes and drums. I'm just frustrated and had a really bad end of last week and weekend. My bright spot was a package in the mail from Redbull :thumbup:

Spent a few hours on the net and youtube to learn nothing. My question is do the ABS computers cross the fluid like an older proportion valve does?

I played hell trying to find a schematic for the ABS valve block or piston type/shape or piston ports. I know It has one or two in there. Mine is the single motor unit with a valve body. No added valves on the truck but maybe residual valves and they can only cause brake drag. Bled the master again and the pressure is the same as the front half by eye. It has plenty there. This ain't my first rodeo, please try to remember that but I am by far no expert on ABS systems. On regular brakes I'm pretty *f-wordin' good! Fixed more problems with cross-bread brake parts from different cars and AM companies in street rods these men have created than you could ever *f-wording imagine in your wildest dreams, period. Most times it was a booster sizing problem, pedal leverage ratios to the master cylinder rod, wrong or bad valves, wrong size lines and or components and the mother of all brake *f-word ups, air in the system. Bleed cars on a rollback to get them right. See no need for that here. Found no air but everything tells me there must be air in the rear or possibly something I know not what to look for. No lit dash board Brake or ABS lights. Everything seems to be in fine working order including the ABS in action on gravel or payment. Low and mushy pedal with poor rear bias imo.
Hope that was understandable gibberish. It took a while to edit.


Anything common has be covered. :squezer:
:nusenuse::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:
I'll check in periodically today. No rest for the wicked...
 

Dub11

Saw R skeery
GoldMember
Local time
3:26 PM
User ID
2014
Joined
Oct 21, 2016
Messages
34,438
Reaction score
146,045
Location
Kansas
Country flag
So my buddy had a 94 z71 and the rear line rusted out. He pinched shut only giving him front brakes. Now this happened in late fall and he only lives a mile and a half from work and has a call truck 50% of the time. So about 2 years later he finally replaces the line and the brakes feel like what you are describing. After replacing all the rubber lines still feels soft. And my buddy is like you and knows his way around a vehicle so we are all like wtf. So I ask a coworkers son who is a GM tech what he thinks. He said while in the driveway SLAM the brakes real hard a few times to pop loose a check valve. I'm still not sure what he was talking about but it worked.
 

redline4

I'm huge in Japan
Local time
3:26 PM
User ID
5593
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
Messages
11,958
Reaction score
98,748
Location
Rosholt Wisconsin
Country flag
Make sure the "pins" are not protruding out either side of the combo valve, where I'm pointing. It needs to be centered.

20181001_143429.jpg


There are little rubber caps over the ends, sometimes its difficult to tell if its not centered with them in place.
 

redline4

I'm huge in Japan
Local time
3:26 PM
User ID
5593
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
Messages
11,958
Reaction score
98,748
Location
Rosholt Wisconsin
Country flag
If memory serves, on those years if the shoe adjustment was on the loose side it would give a real mushy pedal feel too.
 

Lightning Performance

Here For The Long Haul!
Local time
4:26 PM
User ID
677
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
10,991
Reaction score
28,051
Location
East of Philly
Been there done this also with my 88' C10.
So my buddy had a 94 z71 and the rear line rusted out. He pinched shut only giving him front brakes. Now this happened in late fall and he only lives a mile and a half from work and has a call truck 50% of the time. So about 2 years later he finally replaces the line and the brakes feel like what you are describing. After replacing all the rubber lines still feels soft. And my buddy is like you and knows his way around a vehicle so we are all like wtf. So I ask a coworkers son who is a GM tech what he thinks. He said while in the driveway SLAM the brakes real hard a few times to pop loose a check valve. I'm still not sure what he was talking about but it worked.
Did that ten times forty mph backwards and forwards. The first time I got air from the pump. Brakes were so so. Then poof. Never again wtf... Fluid is whistle clean. I also pounded the line shut the first time when it happened. I forgot this time. The dick cut it just forward of the pound down last time. Sixty inches of line could have easily been added for nothing more than two bolt clips. It blew two feet forward of there on top. Oh and the two filter bolts.
We was a little shook. We could have asseended a rig. It was right there as they faded away trying to stop. It was a T intersection at the exit ramp of the freeway. One to the left one on the right stopped. Glad this truck has twin air bags for her sake and his. My brian is scrabble eggs this week. Too much chit.
Make sure the "pins" are not protruding out either side of the combo valve, where I'm pointing. It needs to be centered.

View attachment 143816

Check.
Mine has the single bleeder like the video Shaun posted. I watched that Friday and again this morning. Guy is spot on! Good stuff indeed.
There are little rubber caps over the ends, sometimes its difficult to tell if its not centered with them in place.
Yes, true. I remove them just for that reason. Funny mine is clean but missing. Wonder where that went, hum.
If memory serves, on those years if the shoe adjustment was on the loose side it would give a real mushy pedal feel too.
Yup. That is just the reason I went over the rear end again last night. All is well and bone dry.
You have to bleed the ABS module.

Yes sir fifty plus times in three days and two longer road test runs. My street is wore out. The pin goes in to bleed and floats out upon return. Everything seems correct. It bleeds well, good flow.
I might take it on a hell ride up throughout the pines tonight. The truck can be stood on ends out there and shake anything loose up Factory Rd about anything over sixty mph will break things. Moguls and whoops big whoops. Plus the broken payment to craters to gravel on Speed Well is brutal. I test up there around eighty mph. Nasty piece of proving grounds. Better and safer at night with a spotter but worry about the deer. Creamed a few jumpers and front ends before around farm lands west of there. Be nice to visit and old barmaid friend if they might be on tonight at one of those old haunts. Two are very cool babes.


Thanks Guys
Need to go mill wood and relax a few minutes today before dark.
 

huskyboy

Sorta a husqvarna guy...
Local time
4:26 PM
User ID
1352
Joined
May 30, 2016
Messages
10,025
Reaction score
43,462
Location
Ct
Country flag
Been there done this also with my 88' C10.

Did that ten times forty mph backwards and forwards. The first time I got air from the pump. Brakes were so so. Then poof. Never again wtf... Fluid is whistle clean. I also pounded the line shut the first time when it happened. I forgot this time. The dick cut it just forward of the pound down last time. Sixty inches of line could have easily been added for nothing more than two bolt clips. It blew two feet forward of there on top. Oh and the two filter bolts.
We was a little shook. We could have asseended a rig. It was right there as they faded away trying to stop. It was a T intersection at the exit ramp of the freeway. One to the left one on the right stopped. Glad this truck has twin air bags for her sake and his. My brian is scrabble eggs this week. Too much chit.

Yes, true. I remove them just for that reason. Funny mine is clean but missing. Wonder where that went, hum.

Yup. That is just the reason I went over the rear end again last night. All is well and bone dry.

Yes sir fifty plus times in three days and two longer road test runs. My street is wore out. The pin goes in to bleed and floats out upon return. Everything seems correct. It bleeds well, good flow.
I might take it on a hell ride up throughout the pines tonight. The truck can be stood on ends out there and shake anything loose up Factory Rd about anything over sixty mph will break things. Moguls and whoops big whoops. Plus the broken payment to craters to gravel on Speed Well is brutal. I test up there around eighty mph. Nasty piece of proving grounds. Better and safer at night with a spotter but worry about the deer. Creamed a few jumpers and front ends before around farm lands west of there. Be nice to visit and old barmaid friend if they might be on tonight at one of those old haunts. Two are very cool babes.


Thanks Guys
Need to go mill wood and relax a few minutes today before dark.
@Fruecrue interpreter needed
 

rjames

The clean beaver gets the wood
Local time
4:26 PM
User ID
516
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
253
Reaction score
791
Location
Michigan
Country flag
@Lightning Performance

I can help you out here.
You need this:

Screenshot_20181001-170448_Samsung Internet.jpg

And this:

Screenshot_20181001-170902_Samsung Internet.jpg

Best upgrade you can do for these trucks. I fought with mine for years and finally got some insight on the m/c swap.
About $60 and a little time and you'll have your pedal back. I also replaced my front lines with the Russell braided ones, that helped a bit but the new m/c was the best upgrade I've ever done to my truck.

The fitting goes on the front port on the new m/c, gm used a bigger fitting for the front line on those trucks and the adapter solves that. It's a straight swap just a slight bend of the lines to line up to the new master.

You don't have to buy the edelman fitting, but that's the one I used and it's a good fit, no leaks. Also, make sure to bench bleed the new cylinder proper. It's fairly easy to do with a flat screwdriver and the m/c in the vise.
 

Lightning Performance

Here For The Long Haul!
Local time
4:26 PM
User ID
677
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
10,991
Reaction score
28,051
Location
East of Philly
@Lightning Performance

I can help you out here.
You need this:

View attachment 143832

And this:

View attachment 143833

Best upgrade you can do for these trucks. I fought with mine for years and finally got some insight on the m/c swap.
About $60 and a little time and you'll have your pedal back. I also replaced my front lines with the Russell braided ones, that helped a bit but the new m/c was the best upgrade I've ever done to my truck.

The fitting goes on the front port on the new m/c, gm used a bigger fitting for the front line on those trucks and the adapter solves that. It's a straight swap just a slight bend of the lines to line up to the new master.

You don't have to buy the edelman fitting, but that's the one I used and it's a good fit, no leaks. Also, make sure to bench bleed the new cylinder proper. It's fairly easy to do with a flat screwdriver and the m/c in the vise.
Sounds Awesome. The best one of these brake systems I ever drove was an late nineties Avalanche. It had high end hardware and double braided hoses. We used to have Gary's son make them hoses. 11,000 burst 4,000 working pressure. Had them on all my snow plows with relief at 800 psi. Bought them for many many toys. Dashitz! Good kind ;)

What is the difference here?
Is this update a bore size diameter change of the master cylinder piston, longer piston stroke or added residual valves?
 

dieselfitter

Pinnacle OPE Member
Local time
3:26 PM
User ID
266
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
475
Reaction score
2,669
Location
MN
Country flag
Pump up the brakes and while standing on the pedal, have a helper clamp some needle nose vise grips on all the brake hoses. Let up on the brake pedal. Pump brakes again. Still spongy? The problem is between master cylinder and the clamps. Air in the line.
Not spongy, remove the vise grips one at a time and check pedal. While pumping pedal, watch caliper/rotor for excessive movement, hoses for excessive swelling.
 

J_M____

Super OPE Member
Local time
4:26 PM
User ID
3781
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
268
Reaction score
795
Location
CT
Country flag
Bleeding brakes on older vehicles will often cause an internal master cylinder leak. You will have pressure but can feel spongy. The piston only moves so far when normally using the brakes. The piston gets corrosion on it after the normal range of travel, when you bleed it you push the pedal all the way to the floor which can cause a small tear in an internal seal. I was taught to put a small piece of 2x4 under the brake pedal when bleeding so you don’t press it all the way to the floor and cause this issue. When replacing the master it’s obviously not a problem since it’s new and won’t have corrosion on it.
Either this or your shoes aren’t adjusted right. Manually turn the adjuster until the brakes are dragging a little. They will feel very spongy if they aren’t set tight enough. The auto adjuster may not be working.
 

tp2177

Super OPE Member
Local time
4:26 PM
User ID
2329
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Messages
504
Reaction score
1,044
Location
AL
Isn’t the way to adjust the older Chevy drums to set the parking brake then put it in reverse?
Edit: back up in reverse of course ( I mean)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Last edited:

Lightning Performance

Here For The Long Haul!
Local time
4:26 PM
User ID
677
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
10,991
Reaction score
28,051
Location
East of Philly
Pump up the brakes and while standing on the pedal, have a helper clamp some needle nose vise grips on all the brake hoses. Let up on the brake pedal. Pump brakes again. Still spongy? The problem is between master cylinder and the clamps. Air in the line.
Not spongy, remove the vise grips one at a time and check pedal. While pumping pedal, watch caliper/rotor for excessive movement, hoses for excessive swelling.
Clamps?

Been there done that stuff before but not here this time.
I'm not clamping my front brake hoses but thank you. I have done it in the past as a youngster. It can ruin them internally and they hang up the calipers if they deform or tear internals. The front is fine. Covered everything I could remember. I'm going to do a road test with just that fix on the back hose now. I need to get some small wood blocks first. If the master is the problem it will still be there in my crappy pedal.

Stranger things have happened like coils that go bad the last time you shut off that engine :confused:



just ran the chainsaw mill and forgot to swap the dull chain out. Opps.
Have pics of the drying marks in the slab top side above the bar. While setting the wedges it left white lines in the wood because the bar and chain got hot. She hauls ass now! 7'x 18"x 22" slab 6/4 perfect. The one left from this half of the tree is 9/4
The mill still stuffs and stops the chain if you lead just a little too much with the power head. 030 drags. Next tooth grind will be close to 025.

Forgot to post the above reply and restart on another screen window. I have two tabs open and the phone rang. Oh well. Still need to move a whole page of milling pics.
 
Last edited:

Lightning Performance

Here For The Long Haul!
Local time
4:26 PM
User ID
677
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
10,991
Reaction score
28,051
Location
East of Philly
Bleeding brakes on older vehicles will often cause an internal master cylinder leak. You will have pressure but can feel spongy. The piston only moves so far when normally using the brakes. The piston gets corrosion on it after the normal range of travel, when you bleed it you push the pedal all the way to the floor which can cause a small tear in an internal seal. I was taught to put a small piece of 2x4 under the brake pedal when bleeding so you don’t press it all the way to the floor and cause this issue. When replacing the master it’s obviously not a problem since it’s new and won’t have corrosion on it.
Either this or your shoes aren’t adjusted right. Manually turn the adjuster until the brakes are dragging a little. They will feel very spongy if they aren’t set tight enough. The auto adjuster may not be working.
The shoes have been covered.

I forgot about the old 2x4 thing. It was told to me by an old timer on old "fruit jar" cylinders. Makes sense.
 

tp2177

Super OPE Member
Local time
4:26 PM
User ID
2329
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Messages
504
Reaction score
1,044
Location
AL
Reading your first post the 100k on the drums sounds about right. My little d21 Nissan still has the original shoes/drums at 120k. But still shouldn’t be spongy. Heck we had the opposite problem with our 90s chevys (s10/cavaliers) if we did aftermarket shoes on them they would grab like crazy at low speeds. Only the rear grabbed though. Didn’t bother us enough to change them though lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

tp2177

Super OPE Member
Local time
4:26 PM
User ID
2329
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Messages
504
Reaction score
1,044
Location
AL
Living in the south though I haven’t had a lot of experience with rusted fuel lines thankfully. Dealt with a few frozen calipers on the cavaliers but since we went foreign cars don’t know that I have had to deal with one of those ever since, just turn the rotors and change the pads is all I’ve done for the past 10+ years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Top