why double rakers?

[sonoransaw]

Hey, it's all about "hacks" these days.....if it works, that's what counts....Thanks!

 

[RI Chevy]

Just go by trial and error. Experience is the best teacher. Lol
If you do not have a lot of filing experience, try using one of the file guides. There are a few threads on these already.
I have the 2 in 1 file and the Stihl file guide. I use them all from time to time.

 

[3browns]

I'll see about getting more pics/info off the chain after work...If they're selling a new saw with some substitute chain, that would kinda suck....

Certainly wouldn't be the first time THAT has happened...

I wasn't trying to make you feel bad about the state of your chain; I just wanted to make sure you were putting the blame for overheating problems where they belonged and not on the rakers

Sounds like you were already headed in the right direction and this crew will certainly help you get there

One other thing that has probably been mentioned, a dull chain will kill a bar in a heartbeat and will kill a chainsaw in minutes

If you have two loops and take up @Philbert or @RI Chevy offer then you can keep one the way you get it back and then have it as a reference for working on the other

Just saying

And I lived in Pinetop for a few years in the early 90s and we heated exclusively with wood

 

[sonoransaw]

Thanks, RI Chevy....3Browns...good point on reference....Appreciate those words on the dangers of dull chains....didn't take it seriously enough for sure, but will now....Been to Pinetop, nice area.....We're at about 4500 feet even though it's desert, so it gets kinda cool in winter....Been heating with wood for about 12 years....

 

[Philbert]

Why do these chains have double rakers side by side?

As noted, those are low kickback drive link bumpers (there are different styles), which are generally considered an improvement over low kickback tie strap bumpers (again, there are some different styles). The low kickback tie strap bumper style chains are an older design, but will cut smoother on smaller diameter limbs, and are preferred for some application, like pole saws.




There are some older and specialty chains that DO have 'dual depth gauges' to help keep the chain running straight (some also have low kickback bumpers, so there is every combination imaginable):

Could you guys post a pic of what depth gauge you would use with these chains? Thanks!

Again, don't get all caught up in every different way to do things until you have mastered basic sharpening. We discussed using a constant offset depth gauge tool versus a progressive depth gauge tool in another thread. These work fine for tens of millions of chainsaw users. If the chain does not cut as aggressively as you want *after half of it's life has been used up*, take an additional pass or 2 with the file on each depth gauge. But the cutting edges have to be sharp first.

He was having trouble with his chain/bar overheating and he switched over to a standard single raker and it was night and day.

Sorry that it took him all night to switch chains.

But in fairness, he switched chains, so you can't attribute it all the the low kickback drive link: it was a different chain. If the cutter edges are properly sharpened, and the depth gauges properly set, those chains will cut cut wood. I have cut large logs with them. I have bore cut with them. I have seen guys win chainsaw races with them.

If a chain is overheating, it is usually dull / not properly sharpened; or it is not properly tensioned; or you have insufficient oil flow to the chain; or the user is leaning heavily on the bar (or levering it into the cut with the dogs); or there is something about the wood being cut. Same thing will happen with 'standard' chain - just give it time.

Philbert

 

[3browns]

I can round file it for you. I do not use depth gauges. I go by feel. And chip size.

Jeff makes a very vital point that cannot be overstated

If your saw isn't producing CHIPS and is only making SAWDUST then something is wrong and you need to stop and see what it is

A sharp chain with even close to proper raker height makes chips with little to no down pressure on your part

 

[sonoransaw]

More excellent thoughts.....user error looms large....

Here's a couple more shots of my chain....It is Stihl. It says C and 2 on it also....

3browns, does the wood matter when looking at the chips....I cut exclusively dry wood (live in the desert), so chips are gonna look different from wet wood.

 

[huskyboy]

That looks like semi chisel

 

[CR888]

Yah that's Stihl 26RM3, its decent chain.

 

[RI Chevy]

Green wood generally produces bigger chips than dry wood. What kind of wood do you cut? Desert Iron wood?

 

[sonoransaw]

I almost only cut for firewood....mostly mesquite....some oak, juniper, pine, mulberry, and ironwood.....sparks and dull chains are too common....I might be better off lowering the angle of the teeth toward more chisel....I don't know. Seems the points get knocked off in very short order....

 

[RI Chevy]

Your chain is semi-chisel not full chisel. Perfect for what you are using it for. Just needs to be sharpened and set up for your wood. Simple. Easy...[emoji106]

 

[3browns]

As @RI Chevy stated dry vs wet makes a difference in chips as does species

The thing to take away from this is differentiating between ANY kind/size chips and sawdust

Again as stated your semi chisel chain is fine for cutting in abrasive conditions and when properly sharpened will outlast full chisel

None of us were born knowing this stuff and you will get it

You are obviously motivated to ask questions and to learn so thats 90% of the battle

If you wear that chain out practice filing it will still be worth it in the long run

Don't jump around and try 6 new things every time you file

Just follow your angles and use a magic marker to black the teeth so you can watch your progress as you file

Consistency counts for a lot

 

[Philbert]

Once you get your sharpening down, you can try to experiment with different angles, etc.

Buy two or three identical, new chains, file or sharpen them at different angles, and compare them in the same wood with the same saw. See if you notice a difference in performance with your wood, your saw, and your cutting conditions.

If you do, 'dial that in', even if it's some odd angle like 26.5°. if you do not notice any differences, then just stick with the "standard" angles.

Hard, dry wood, may cut better with different depth gauge settings too. Figure out what works for you.

Philbert

 

[sonoransaw]

Sounds like great advice, 3browns and Philbert.....!!!

 

[sonoransaw]

Got over to my brother's and took a look at his chain. It looked sharp. The other one did too. There was quite a difference between the chains though. They were both Stihl. The double raker had way smaller teeth. The single raker had big teeth with aggressive looking points. It just looked like it was meant to cut! The double raker looked like a kid's trike by comparison. The double raker chain had oil baked on from overheating. I don't know why it was overheating so much. Maybe I'll try to get some pics of it to post....

 

[sonoransaw]

I sharpened up the double raker on my stihl and cut with it today. Cut very well. I just think the double thing is overkill and a pain to have to file. But I'm just the dumb customer, not the smart engineer.....

 

[RI Chevy]

If you cut in some good hard wood, that chain will clean right up...
Providing your saw is oiling properly.
Sounds like you are trying to compare full chisel to semi chisel.

 

[Philbert]

And stop calling it a 'double raker' - it's confusing to folks. It is a 'low kickback chain'.

Philbert

 

[sonoransaw]

I was thinking that might be the case, RI Chevy....you guys'll be able to tell me if I can post some pics...

Philbert, I refuse to extend them the dignity of their proper moniker....they do not improve the quality of anyone's life imho....