What oil is best? and what ratio?

[CR888]

If I was forced to run 100-300:1 in a 2T saw or whatever, Motul 800 would be up there as the oil of choice. I love it when folks run it @32:1 & wonder why dare saw don't work good.

 

[andyshine77]

If I was forced to run 100-300:1 in a 2T saw or whatever, Motul 800 would be up there as the oil of choice. I love it when folks run it @32:1 & wonder why dare saw don't work good.

Ran it at 32:1 and the saws ran just fine, made a mess in and around the exhaust though.

 

[porsche965]

Interesting. One tough engine. Curious where this was assembled and approximate year of build. Tks.

 

[andyshine77]

Bearings are getting hot from lack of lube for sure. Yup I would saw the oil is cooking on those surfaces pretty good. I bet if you were to heat her up and pull it down to almost stalling she would let go pretty quick. But as you said I've been wrong before too.

 

[andyshine77]

What you fail to grasp here is the fact that this thing, b4 the test started could NOT pull 2 more inches of line per side. Simply was over loaded with that extra line. It's on the edge of being maxed as tested. If not it would spin this line with much more gusto.

I understand, but you fail to understand pulling it down to almost stopping pretty much instantly raises head temperatures to maximum levels, far beyond what they are when the charge is moving through the engine in abundance.

Again I really like what you're doing, try not to take what I'm saying as being negative, just offering you what I know from running and modifying these things. Have a good one.

 

[andyshine77]

Keeping things the same is the right thing to do without doubt.

That said you're way too touchy on the subject, I am not attacking you. Yes we all have our own experience, I was just offering mine, no need to get worked up about it, other people do know a thing or two as well.

Best of luck with your testing.[emoji111]

 

[9050lx]

Yup. Get to wild and it would get frame flex and get out of shape. Super fun bike. The 650 was an animal for power but had a real ridged feel to it. A byproduct of a stiff aluminum frame.

Always wanted an xr650r I have a problem with cutting throttle at times, woulda killed myself on that one, lol. By the way whats top end on that model?

 

[CR888]

I've got a XR650R...done a few de-corking mods to allow it to run as it should. Big power increase over the 600's I've had in the past. I like the big bores but I also miss the hit of HP from 2T dirtbikes. Ive been thinking I need a 250 2T to get the adrenaline going again. The 650R has gobs of torque but its such smooth power. I wish it had an electric start...

 

[9050lx]

As far as top speed? I made all my 4 stroke bikes street legal and put a speedo on if they didn't come with one. My 650R read 99 mph on flat smooth asphalt. Around 95-96 on gravel road. A GREAT movie, a documentary about the baja 1000 called Dust to Glory, has team Honda and 650 R in it as well as many other race teams like pro 8 trucks ect. There is a particular scene involving the R on a wet beach. Oh man! From what ive read Honda didn't need to do a lot to those to be desert race competitive. Cam, pipe, gearing and lights was about it.

I did a street legal conversion on an xr400 by applying the certificate of origin for title through the state of Vermont and obtaining a title bond.Had to prove frame ID at local sheriff office and did a Baja design light kit.Still have that one.

 

[Keith Gandy]

No dice fellas. Compression is really weak now. Complete pull down coming. Stay tuned.

Which oil is next?

 

[RI Chevy]

Did you happen to take any temps of the case or jug?

 

[Keith Gandy]

Quick detour for you Keith cause I know you ride. View attachment 234304 View attachment 234305 My wife and I are avid cyclist. Mine is the 3 wheeled cripple cart. Wife has a real light street bike as well as her FatCad. Back to oil.....

Oh ya! I love biking

 

[Keith Gandy]

Nice Keith. It's fun exercise for sure. We have a nice long paved rail trail 5 miles from the house and an off-road trail maybe 10. I currently can't do that but a fat tired trike is in the plans. Anyway...... oil!

Im interested to see the Red Armour. I don't expect it to perform as well the the 800t which is impressive but bring it on! Thanks for the hard work and I find this very interesting

 

[Keith Gandy]

View attachment 234347 View attachment 234348 View attachment 234349 View attachment 234350 View attachment 234351

Pretty nasty looking once it starts combusting in lean condition. Best to keep this oil rich it seems

 

[Keith Gandy]

It's the nastiest piston I've seen in a long time. And I had it tuned with almost zero margin for error.

It looks similar to coking with Klotz Super Techniplate. Nasty looking!

 

[andyshine77]

Great work brother[emoji8][emoji111]


I have some pictures of a piston and cylinder from a 441 ran on Amsoil Saber here I could post up, I would be interested in seeing what that oil would do in a similar setup, as Amsoil claims it's good to go @ 100:1 even though myself and others have see failures in chainsaws, though I've seem it work just fine in trimmers and even blowers. From the info on Saber, Motul 800 should in fact be a Superior product in extreme applications.

 

[andyshine77]

Here are the pics of that 441, I've posted them quite a few times before. The saw ran a gallon of Amsoil Saber @ 100:1 The saw was still running and it was tuned spot on. The saw was taken apart for porting, the saw is still running to this day on Saber mixed at 40:1. The pictures were take in late 2010.

 

[Keith Gandy]

Here are the pics of that 441, I've posted them quite a few times before. The saw ran a gallon of Amsoil Saber @ 100:1 The saw was still running and it was tuned spot on. The saw was taken apart for porting, the saw is still running to this day on Saber mixed at 40:1. The pictures were take in late 2010.

View attachment 234407 View attachment 234408

Whats the brownish residue on the crown

 

[Dub11]

View attachment 234328 View attachment 234329 View attachment 234330 View attachment 234331 View attachment 234332 Crank rod journal is discolored and has coking on the end. "Big" crank bearing is smooth and good.

Now blast it out with some carb cleaner, slap it back together and see how long it runs on 40:1 lol.

 

[andyshine77]

Whats the brownish residue on the crown

My guess is coking from heat, if I remember correctly there was some on the underside of the piston as well, which is common when things get hot. The rod around the pin didn't have any buildup yet so the pen and bearing was still fine. The bottom end was very dry, yet there wasn't any bluing. There also appears to be early signs of a detonation on the piston crown, again from heat, the rpm the engine is capable of didn't help either. The marks on the sides of the crown were from checking squish in case anyone was wondering. After porting the saw would tune to 16,000 rpm and still be a little rich. While I'm not the biggest fan of the 441, they're actually good running saws and take well to porting.