Tree Monkey MS462 - PART 2

[retro]

So explain the vacuum pulse that actuates the fuel pump diaphragm in the carb. I’m not trying to be combative on this either but I definitely do not see things the way you do

There is a vent to atmospheric pressure on one side of those diaphragms that forces them to move. Now, if you were to plug that vent you'd have a true pump... one where forces other than an existing natural force must be exerted on BOTH sides of the diaphragm (push/pull) to cause any movement. Since it is external pressure, not vacuum that causes movement of a diaphragm, you can increase the ability of that device to perform work by simply increasing its surface area, without increasing negative pressure signal strength.

Ok, I'll go away and leave y'all be now... time to check into another Holiday Inn for brain calories replenishment.

 

[Wonkydonkey]

I knew some girls in HS and College that created nice vacuum! Like an old Hoover!

I need moore details on old hoovers

 

[RI Chevy]

They never spilled a drop! Very diligent.

 

[XP_Slinger]

There is a vent to atmospheric pressure on one side of those diaphragms that forces them to move. Now, if you were to plug that vent you'd have a true pump... one where forces other than an existing natural force must be exerted on BOTH sides of the diaphragm (push/pull) to cause any movement. Since it is external pressure, not vacuum that causes movement of a diaphragm, you can increase the ability of that device to perform work by simply increasing its surface area, without increasing negative pressure signal strength.

Ok, I'll go away and leave y'all be now... time to check into another Holiday Inn for brain calories replenishment.

Copy all, it functions as a pump though not technically a pump. I have to find a holiday inn also...lol

 

[Wood Chopper]

They never spilled a drop! Very diligent.

Pics of their filter please?

 

[cus_deluxe]

Now, if you were to plug that vent you'd have a true pump... one where forces other than an existing natural force must be exerted on BOTH sides of the diaphragm (push/pull) to cause any movement. Since it is external pressure, not vacuum that causes movement of a diaphragm, you can increase the ability of that device to perform work by simply increasing its surface area, without increasing negative pressure signal strength.

You cannot have one without the other in this case. If you did not have the pressure differential, the “fuel pump thats not a pump” would not work. Heres a test, take the piston outta ur saw and see how it runs, should run fine since...

The piston does very little of the required work for filling during the intake stroke.

I think i see what youre getting at but you cannot fill a crankcase without negative pressure/vacuum created by the piston, you cannot move a diaphragm without the piston. Yes i would say that you are “nitpicking semantics”. In fact the piston does 100% of the work involved in filling the crankcase, by creating the pressure differential. The surrounding atmosphere just goes where the differential dictates. Search enthalpy in a thermodynamic system, very relevant here i think.

 

[cus_deluxe]

Especially the paragraph in the center

 

[tree monkey]

Pics of their filter please?

filter pic sent in pm

 

[Redfin]

Motors are electric
Engines are gas

Hope I’m not coming across as a dick but your wrong

He made a very good point that you missed or denied. You cannot “stretch or bend air”.

Hope Im coming aross as a dick.

 

[tree monkey]

ms hoover, cause internal volume maters

 

[RedGas]

Motors are electric
Engines are gas

Yet...
motorboats have engines
and
engine lathes have motors.

I'm so confused!

 

[RI Chevy]

ms hoover, cause internal volume maters

I would have ran away if it was her. LOL

 

[RedGas]

There's suction pumps (like the old hand-lift pump)...but they can only suck water up so far...I think 33 feet at sea level. (33 ft of water = 29 inches of mercury = 14.7 psi = 1 ATM at sea level.) If the water table is deeper than 33 feet deep, they won't work, because there's not enough air pressure to push the water that far up the pipe to fill the vacuum created by the pump.

Then there's positive displacement pumps. A gear pump is a positive displacement pump. Since liquids are not compressible, positive displacement pumps are basically direct-drive with effectively zero slip. If the liquid can't go anywhere, the gear can't turn and the shaft can't rotate. Sumpin gonna break. (Like when a screaming outboard engine sucks up a cylinder full of seawater. CLUNK)

 

[XP_Slinger]

And now this thread “sucks”...sorry guys.

 

[retro]

Yes, I am nitpicking semantics and I have mentioned some reasons why making those distinctions are important, but you are now attempting to mix them. How/why did principles of thermodynamics get introduced when they have nothing to do with the elements (basic physics IMHO) supporting this discussion? Once the fire is about to be lit in the cylinder and the gaseous energy exchange processes commence we'll be talking thermodynamics... but those terms are irrelevant at this stage.

 

[RedGas]

They never spilled a drop! Very diligent.

Q: Do you know what the KGB calls a female intelligence officer who uses sex as an enticement?

A: A swallow.

 

[tree monkey]

an engine at full throttle has no vacuum

 

[XP_Slinger]

Yes, I am nitpicking semantics and I have mentioned some reasons why making those distinctions are important, but you are now attempting to mix them. How/why did principles of thermodynamics get introduced when they have nothing to do with the elements (basic physics IMHO) supporting this discussion? Once the fire is about to be lit in the cylinder and the gaseous energy exchange processes commence we'll be talking thermodynamics... but those terms are irrelevant at this stage.

I think we can move on brother. Our discussion was simply based in two different perspectives. Perspective #1 - generation of negative pressure being the triggering force...perspective #2 - Presence of ambient pressure being the triggering force.

Bottom line...nothing happens if one is absent. I’m content as I understand where you’re coming from now, was just a little confused on the way here. I don’t think we need to beat on this horse any more...do you?

 

[RedGas]

My Dad said that in the olden days, some car makers put vacuum gauges in their dashboards and called them "fuel economy gauges" ... more vacuum, higher fuel economy.

I know diesel engines don't have any vacuum, but gas engines ... even at full throttle, it seems to me they still have to have some vacuum, otherwise air wouldn't be drawn into the cylinder. And I bet if you put a vacuum gauge on the intake manifold, you'd still see at least some vacuum (i.e., pressure would be lower than local ambient pressure).

 

[Wood Chopper]

filter pic sent in pm

I'm afraid to look..