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Sugihara vs. Tsumura pricewise

RI Chevy

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Ahhh. I wouldn't be overly concerned at all. If there is 6 rivots, they are probably smaller or thinner. If there is 4 rivots they are probably thicker. No big deal at all.
 

Locust Cutter

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On a much smaller scale, a friend locally has bought a few Sugis, for His 261, possibly his 241 and I believe for either his 034 or His 036, (he's a creamsickle fan). He was dumbfounded how much straighter they cut and the additional "feel" He had in the cut. With His years of experience making mine pale in comparison, the price tag may be work it. I could see the 60cc and smaller saws getting them eventually. We'll see about the bigger ones.
 

Joe Kidd

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Not that looks means anything, but the LW Tsumura is the best looking bar out there IMO. I've got 16" Sugi's on my 261 and 550, while the 441 sports a 24" Tsumura.
 

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On a much smaller scale, a friend locally has bought a few Sugis, for His 261, possibly his 241 and I believe for either his 034 or His 036, (he's a creamsickle fan). He was dumbfounded how much straighter they cut and the additional "feel" He had in the cut. With His years of experience making mine pale in comparison, the price tag may be work it. I could see the 60cc and smaller saws getting them eventually. We'll see about the bigger ones.
He sounds like s smart guy! lol
 

CR888

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No doubt the Japanese make good bars if you want top shelf pressed steel either Germany or Japan are the places to get it. But I find good buys can be the German made Carlton Sprocket tip or the Canadian made Speed tips either Windsor or Carlton. The quality and rail strength is damn good for the price. Mostly what's around is NOS stock and bargains can be found. I have a good stash of new bars maybe 20 new spares.1539058157368-107367213.jpg
 

KiwiBro (deleted)

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Looks like Sugihara do a reduced weight 42" but the resin inserts don't go the whole length of the bar:
LIGHT-TYPE-PRO-SV2U-3Q104A-42in-3-8in-063-2.gif
 
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Skeans1

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No doubt the Japanese make good bars if you want top shelf pressed steel either Germany or Japan are the places to get it. But I find good buys can be the German made Carlton Sprocket tip or the Canadian made Speed tips either Windsor or Carlton. The quality and rail strength is damn good for the price. Mostly what's around is NOS stock and bargains can be found. I have a good stash of new bars maybe 20 new spares.View attachment 144848

I’ve got a 32 speed tip Windsor around I swear it’s heavier then my 32 cannon never weighed both to confirm it just by hand weights and back at the end of the day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Derf

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Ahhh. I wouldn't be overly concerned at all. If there is 6 rivots, they are probably smaller or thinner. If there is 4 rivots they are probably thicker. No big deal at all.

I like my vehicle wheels to have 5 lug nuts. Only the Smart Car, Mini Cooper, and Fiat 500 seem to have moved to 4 lug nut wheels as a cost saving measure. And they don’t have the power or weight of larger cars.

I think the same mentality is for rivets in the tip: more even load, more redundancy if one starts to fail.
 

Derf

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Formula 1 is about speed, on the track AND in the pit. Taking out 1 lug is faster than 5. I’m not sure they make one lug because it is stronger than 5, I think they need to make it bigger so it is as strong as 5.

Anyway, so far I haven’t seen any sprocket nose tips with just one big rivet. Lol. I prefer 6 to 4 for peace of mind, that’s all. Though, at the end of a day, I’m sure my back would prefer the 4 rivet lightweight bar to the solid 6 rivet. Hell, it would probably prefer a laminate bar over a solid bar with RSN. So would my wife and my wallet. Luckily I don’t schlep a saw around all day. I cut a little here and there. It’s just a question of what trade off for durability you want to live with. Some can get a million board feet out of a 4-rivet tip, others maybe not even a season. It all depends on the variables. I’m just a firewood hack with a lot of residential property in the family to help maintain, not some logger. So my use is less than a full time sawyer, but so is my technique.

Finally, I asked about the old style Tsumura and they used to come with 5-rivet tips. At some point they changed over to mostly all 4 rivet tips (at least in their 3/8 lightweight line). Knowing that a factory is running a punch or drill operation to make those tips, going from 5 to 4 means you gain 20% efficiency. Meaning if you could stamp out 500 5-rivet tips in a day, you could stamp out 625 4-rivet tips in a day. Add in that it’s one less rivet in cost, and the bottom line drops further. And if the end user has to buy a replacement tip sooner, or a whole new bar sooner, hooray for the company profits. Just my opinion that the move was about cost cutting, not making a better product.
 

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I am sure that an engineer took a look at the tip. If the engineer thought the tip needed more rivets, then they would have kept them.
That's all. We'll agree to dissgree. It's al good.
 

Dub11

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Why should they be bought if they work for the company????
I'm just going to use my Tsumura bars with the utmost confidence and we can call it a day.

The engineer at my job will cheap out at every turn thinking he is "saving" th company money. It back fires all time.

Now back to the less rivet front. Maybe the went with less it match the ID of the roller bearing they chose. Or has anyone measured the river diameters? Are they using 4 big ones instead of 6 small ones? Lots of variables out there.
 
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CR888

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All engineers can be bought for a price! Jmho!
Well what were the engineers & bean counters thinking when they put 6 rivets in the .404 tips?:eek: I don't by it, I'm not saying your definitely wrong but I believe both Sugi & Tsumura have quality at the forefront of their products. While its possible I just don't think they'd be doing themselves any favours cheaping out on strength there. I think load testing & R&D would be there focus. Anyhow I've worn out a 3/8" Tsumura bar and the nose sprocket was still serviceable (although mostly all bucking cuts). Obviously .404 creates higher stress so 6 rivets is what they consider is required. Until folks report unusual numbers of tip failures its something I wouldn't worry about at all. I think the quality of the bearing & race & sprocket along with gap tolerances are probably just as important. The cheap Taiwan homeowner noses are a little crude when pulled apart.
 
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