Suggested questions for Stihl Rep.

[dmb2613]

I would also add, if you lie to me about the saw you are done no help as far as I am concerned

 

[PETDOC]

David, thanks for your comments as they are somewhat reassuring. All I want is an accurate assessment as to cause. If they can point to something I've done I'm prepared to own it. As yet I haven't thrown any stones, but will admit having to wait over a month for the Stihl rep to approve or disapprove a repair will not earn Stihl corporation a 5 star rating from me for customer service.
Two quick questions. 1. Does Stihl have the ability to test the Mtronic carburetor to determine if it leaned out the fuel mix? and 2. Have you been given an explanation why Stihl is recommending replacement of the MS261 C-M solenoid by current owners?

 

[dmb2613]

The solenoids came from a batch that had problems I am told. Yes It should tell if it was running lean , I expect the shop you are dealing with is giving you the run a round. When I have a problem and get the inside Stihl rep involved, it will be rectified in a mater of days . Give me the serial # of your saw, I will run it and see what is going on. That I will have to do when I get back to work, I dont have a good internet here at home
David

 

[DND 9000]

If the dealer checks the data on the control unit, he can see the settings for idle and high speed of the last run. If it is not within the green range, the cause has to be found.

The newer white solenoid valves are internally more resistant against fine dirt particles that go through it with the fuel. These fine dirt particles damaged the teflon sealing material of the older black valve (on the outlet). Then fuel leaked through even if the valve was closed. The white valve has a metal sealing plate and is therefore more dirt resistant. It can be used with the carburetors which had originally a black valve in it. (on the MS 261 C-M) Also it is importand to update the fuel filter to the newer orange one with finer filter material. There is a repair kit for that availible including the fuel filter and the white solenoid valve (1140 007 1802). After installation of the new parts a recalibration is nessessary.

 

[PETDOC]

David, my saw was purchased 10/2/17 and the serial # is 512774242. I asked the Stihl dealer from whom I purchased MSA 200 if he had seen the Stihl rep recently and he said not in several weeks, so presently I believe the dealer who has my MS261 is telling me the truth. I will stop by dealer on Tuesday and if no word from rep I plan to call Stihl customer service and see what they say.

 

[dmb2613]

The rep does not have to come by, They can call the inside rep and get things moving from the phone.

 

[angelo c]

I do a lot of repair work for a friend who operates a tree service. And these guys bend hammers and rocks with the best of them. Cant tune a piano or a saw and barely file chain.... under my advisement I told the owner to purchase Mtronics moving forward. They have done so and blew up a 261cm . I looked at it and said its warranty. They denied the claim as it was 4 days past 1 year. This is a dealership we do a ton of business with. I'm on a first name basis with everyone there. except the repair desk. I do repairs.. they said the saw had too many "starts". Now I'm raging hot because the shop manager is calling me out. I'm telling him "you have the computer...tell me exactly when the saw failed and why" well it has too many starts. (No chit ass wipe it wont start) . I had to be held back by the service owner (ex-LEO). I dislike being called a hack to my face. At some point I was convinced that it would be better for everyone if I left with the saw that was clearly lean seized by the solenoid and not the operator. We ate the saw as a business decision as it would be costlier if I hit the shop manager.

 

[PETDOC]

If the dealer checks the data on the control unit, he can see the settings for idle and high speed of the last run. If it is not within the green range, the cause has to be found.

The newer white solenoid valves are internally more resistant against fine dirt particles that go through it with the fuel. These fine dirt particles damaged the teflon sealing material of the older black valve (on the outlet). Then fuel leaked through even if the valve was closed. The white valve has a metal sealing plate and is therefore more dirt resistant. It can be used with the carburetors which had originally a black valve in it. (on the MS 261 C-M) Also it is importand to update the fuel filter to the newer orange one with finer filter material. There is a repair kit for that availible including the fuel filter and the white solenoid valve (1140 007 1802). After installation of the new parts a recalibration is nessessary.

Thank you for the information. Assuming my saw has the older solenoid and it was damaged it would likely have provided a richer and not leaner gas:air mix. When I purchased the saw I also bought a brand new 2 1/2 gallon (10L) plastic gasoline can with dual filtration. There is a coarse white plastic cylindrical filter descending ~5" from the fill site and a small circular fine mesh wire brass filter at the pour spout; both filters are visibly clear of an debris. The 50:1 ethanol-free gas:Stihl oil mix has only been used in my MS261 and I had used 4 gallons up to the point it seized so not a lot of fuel for contaminants to damage solenoid. FWIW, I did shake up gas container and pour some in a glass jar to check for water. Didn't see any water or debris; actually fuel is totally transparent and I can read small print in a book through it. My conclusion is debris has unlikely damaged my solenoid.

 

[DND 9000]

Well I can`t tell you if debris damaged your valve or not. Maybe the cause for the scoring is something other, that`s also possible. I can only tell what Stihl has provided in the past. That was the reason for the newer valves.

 

[Fish]

How old was the fuel? What does the piston look like?
Go by and take some pics.

 

[PETDOC]

How old was the fuel? What does the piston look like?
Go by and take some pics.

Can't precisely answer question on age of fuel. Best approximation would be no more than 6 months. I have subsequently been using same fuel in a Husqvarna 435 without a problem.
When I go by dealer tomorrow I'll ask to see my saw. I have no idea what they disassembled to diagnose issue.

 

[PETDOC]

How old was the fuel? What does the piston look like?
Go by and take some pics.

Fish, Based on your questions I did some research. Found an excellent YouTube on interpreting piston scoring that may be of interest to others,

. I also read some interesting articles on gasoline age and octane loss. I have acquaintance who owns a large number of gas stations and will see if he has access to "affordable" source for testing fuel from my saw.

 

[redline4]

It simply amazes me the difference in a warranty claim in the o.pe world versus the automotive world.
Case in point. Chevy Equinox. Pcv orifice froze due to sludge, lack of maintenance and cold weather.
Crankcase pressure blew out the rear crank seal.
Customer drove until engine was rattling. Added 4 quarts of oil (5qt capacity).
Did that 2 more times until it shut off for good.


Guess what, I put a crank, bearings and rods in it under warranty. Even though customer continued to drive with a severe oil leak..

 

[dmb2613]

your warranty is good until 10-02-2019, I did not see where a claim has been filed

 

[dall]

your warranty is good until 10-02-2019, I did not see where a claim has been filed

so you are saying his dealer is trying to stick one into him and being lazy then ?

 

[dmb2613]

No I said what I found I may not be able to see everything

 

[redline4]

so you are saying his dealer is trying to stick one into him and being lazy then ?

I'm with @dall on this. Seems the dealer is just being an asshat.

 

[PETDOC]

I could say all's well that ends well, but that's not how I currently feel. I just dropped by dealer to see if Stihl rep had yet been there. The dealer said "glad you're here" and handed me my repaired saw. He said Stihl rep refused to cover it as warranty repair, so he, the dealer, did it gratis. I asked why the Stihl rep refused coverage and was given a vague answer, but did say the Mtronic system was not found to be at fault. Essentially a non answer. I then asked why the saw had seized and again got a non-answer, but was told I should keep the chain sharp. I was shown my piston and cylinder, but told they had to sent back to Stihl; therefore, I couldn't keep them. The piston had linear scoring on the exhaust side and the rings were frozen in place, the intake side was pristine. The old cylinder was in the Stihl box in which the new cylinder was shipped. I noticed the part number was 1140 020 1200. I mentioned that it was my understanding that was the old MS261 cylinder and the C-M model part # ended in 1230. He said the replaced cylinder was physically different than the original cylinder, but is what Stihl specifies for the C-M. He even showed me the parts diagram on the computer and how he could not order the 1230 for 261 C-M. I asked about the new solenoid and fuel filter and he was unaware they were being replaced.
I guess I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, but I've got a saw that seized for reasons still unknown to me and I have no idea how to prevent it from recurring. I suspect Stihl at the very least supplied the parts for free because they wanted the old parts back. During my month long search through chainsaw forums I read several posts stating no more than a 40:1 gasil mix on the MS261 C-M, some a 32:1, otherwise risk seizure. I asked dealer and he insisted I should use a 50:1 mix. When running, the MS261 C-M is a fantastic saw, but right now I wish I had my old Husqvarna 51 back.
I would like to thank all who provided me information. I learned a lot and am sorry I don't have a definitive answer as to why saw seized.

 

[Philbert]

Glad you got your saw back. Frustrating when they are not more open about the circumstances.

Philbert

 

[redline4]

Good to hear it's back.
Sucks to not know if the reason it burned down is still present.

If the big creamsicle in the sky wants the old parts back, you can bet they paid for them. Unless they have some type of core charge, which I will bet they don't, it's the only reason a manufacturer can request parts back. Otherwise it's tell them to stfu and gtfo.