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Sloping Back Cuts - Why Not?

Discussion in 'Forestry Community' started by Philbert, Aug 19, 2016.

  1. Wagnerwerks

    Wagnerwerks I have yet to "suffer" from CAD

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    So... perfect thread.
    When they logged our woods, all of our stumps looked like bowls.... what's that called? I've cut lots of trees down, but never that way and I'm just curious.
     
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  2. exSW

    exSW Going,going..Gone

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    Huh. Were they flush to the ground? I've done that stumping when I knew I wouldn't be back with the backhoe or dozer. Bowl holds the rainwater and helps them rot faster. Also you can clear them with the mower.
     
  3. Wagnerwerks

    Wagnerwerks I have yet to "suffer" from CAD

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    I'll see if I can get a pic. They were just odd. I asked about it and he said it's better for keeping logs from splitting.
     
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  4. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    Saw this photo posted on another site:

    Screen shot 2016-11-08 at 10.06.00 AM.png

    Philbert
     
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  5. paragonbuilder

    paragonbuilder Jon1212 Approved!

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    Whoopsie, hope no one got hurt!
     
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  6. junkman

    junkman Crush it

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  7. redoakneck

    redoakneck Pinnacle OPE Member

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    It is all about physics and the direction of strength of the wood fibers. If a straight back cut sits back, it puts a lot of pulling force in same direction as the wood hinge fibers, so the hinge has a pulling force on the fibers, not going to break if it is an inch per foot diameter of the tree, and the tree is solid.

    If that force is not parallel to the hinge fibers, as in a SLOPING back cut, when the tree sits back, the force is more perpendicular to the hinge and it snaps.

    What easier, pulling a pencil in half, or snapping it with a side force??

    Do both cuts on a small tree with a hand saw, and pull the tree over backwards and you will see how much easier the sloped cut breaks.

    I watched a video on YouTube that a guy did, and tried it myself, really amazing.


    All that being said, my local county road guys mark trees and cut them to prevent hazards, and they have a 45' back cut angle!!!
     
  8. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    This is one?



    Philbert
     
  9. so il logger

    so il logger GFY

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    Possibly spur cutting as known locally, or bucket cutting in other parts.
     
  10. bikemike

    bikemike Pinnacle OPE Member

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    Sounds like a veneer cut for less or no grain pull
     
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  11. jake wells

    jake wells no longer here

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    no sloping back cut from me and i use either a conventional or open face notch.
     
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  12. Deets066

    Deets066 AKA Deetsey

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    Yup that's a veneer cut with a short bar
     
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  13. JackAXE

    JackAXE OPE Member

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    Momma always sAyIs you can sure learn an awful alot about a person by the type a cuts a mAYIn mAYkes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
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  14. jeepsnchainsaws

    jeepsnchainsaws Pinnacle OPE Member

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    A friend of mine is a 3rd gen logger. While we were harvesting White Oaks a few years ago he walked over and stopped me mid cut, he said "see if you can throw your saw over the creek from here" I said WTF! Why? He said "it would be half as stupid as the cut you are making"
    Yep! Sloping back cut.
    I'll never do it again... I promise!
     
  15. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    Did he explain 'why', or just tell you not to do it?

    Philbert
     
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  16. jeepsnchainsaws

    jeepsnchainsaws Pinnacle OPE Member

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    He said it makes a weak hinge and can allow the tree to split backwards from opening the end grain more from the wider angle.
     
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  17. JackAXE

    JackAXE OPE Member

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    I'll add a bunch of aggravators tomorrow
    but the main reason by far is you are creating a catapult without defense.

    The thing about falling, it's a system that has safe procedures that back each other up. Example: Work from the high side, clean out the cuts as well level and precise cuts, do a site overviews, look up frequently, leave an anti kickback step, cut saftey trail, clean saftey trail, walk saftey trail (two on a danger tree), degress 10 ft from stump, no brushing of standing timber ect. There is multiple steps in place and sometimes we need to miss CERTAIN ONES or maybe two steps to overcome a falling difficulty which increaces the risk to do on a regular basis. Now sometimes chit happens like cutting off your holding wood and losing a tree over backwords or sideways . A tree always starts to fall slow in most cases, even a tree that you just lost control of is going to stay on the sump for a period of time and you have time to see the direction it's committing to as you make your exit plan. In this case, well as the case of a hinged tree,, revert to Newtons first law of motion.
    "What starts in motion will remain in motion until it comes in contact with another body" (speaking of which, that is what a kickback step if for on a hinged tree. A lot of things are in place for the "What if".)

    In the case shown in the picture; Refrence:
    Newtons third law, as follows:
    "When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body.

    This is creating an equal and opossite reaction. This will launch the butt off the stump in possibly a forward direction very quickly without the security of a "safe" (high) side. Very very dangerous.

    I hope this answers your question a bit better.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
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  18. JackAXE

    JackAXE OPE Member

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    Not exactly a good explanation.
    He is right in saying it's wrong but he abviously doesn't know the actions and reactions. IT DOES NOT make a weak hinge. Intact fibers are just that. and it won't change the strength of the fibers. It doesn't make any difference on a forward Leaning tree therefore it doesn't weaken the hinge. Now if it was an architectural design then it would be the weaker of the two as you are eliminating the base surface and replacing it with a leverage point, If the tree were to set back. The length of the tree is now acting like a huge pry bar over the pivot putting a lot of stress on the holding wood.

    As far a splitting due to opening up the end grain? No! It wouldn't split with the holding wood intact. If the holding wood fails then the stress is releaved.

    Someone needs to go to cutting skool
     
  19. jeepsnchainsaws

    jeepsnchainsaws Pinnacle OPE Member

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    Blah blah blah... GFY :)
     
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  20. redoakneck

    redoakneck Pinnacle OPE Member

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    Yes, exactly!!
     
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