Sharpening Chain.

[Kenskip1]

OK,So after putting several tanks through my 025, it was time to sharpen the Stihl RS chain. I am using my "Jolly Star" grinder with the proper size wheel.I am taking off as little material as possible. When I get done it appears as if the teeth on the left side are slightly longer than the right side.I checked this with my Lyman shell case caliper. The left side is around 5-7 mm longer than the right side. I am using 60 degrees on the grinder head, and 30 on the cuter tooth.What am I doing wrong? BTY if anyone asks this is a 16 inch, 325/63 chain.I have sharpened this chain now was the third time.Could the rotation of the motor on the grinder have any bearing?Yes I am picky about how my chains are sharpened. Granted that this is not a large amount but I would like to know what I could be doing wrong.Could the chain have been incorrectly manufactured this way? Yes I am a pain in the arse. I have refused oil filters from my local auto supplier because the filter was out of round. Spark plugs because the electrode was out of center. OK sorry to ramble on.Any suggestions? Thanks, Ken

 

[Philbert]

The instruction manual for your grinder should show you how to center the chain holding vise to get equal length cutters.

This setting can change as the
grinder wheel wears and the diameter changes.

Or, you can adjust your technique: I will grind all of the Left cutters (for example), then do just one Right cutter. I stop and compare that cutter back-to-back with one of the Left cutters, and make small adjustments to the cutter positioning stop / dog to get equal length cutters.

After a while, you will be able to predict which side will be longer without making the adjustment.

Philbert

 

[Kenskip1]

Philbert. I have had the Jolly Star for about 8 years. Lord knows where the owner's manual is by now. I think that I understand that as the wheel gets worn the right side of the cutter is further away from the center of the wheel so I have to lower the head to get the grinding wheel deeper into the tooth. Honestly I am lost. I tried to download the manual but no can do.Chinese is not my language. So the left side of the cutter is closer to the center and does not require as much wheel depth as the right side. Am I making any sense?

 

[Black Dog Chainsaw]

5-7mm longer on one side???? That’s like the full length of the cutter... are we missing a decimal point in there??? 0.5mm is about 0.020in which I can believe.

As to centering the chain and keeping it even it depends on which Jolly grinder you have. The Jolly’s are mostly twins to Oregon’s, and should have owners manuals/instructions online. I wouldn’t know what to tell you on how to find the centering point without knowing the model or seeing a picture. It mostly depends on which chain vise you have...

 

[RI Chevy]

Any photos of the cutters?

 

[Kenskip1]

Black Dog, yes there is supposed to be a decimal in there.

 

[RI Chevy]

TY sir.

 

[Deets066]

Get the cutters sharp and set the rakers with a gauge.

Proceed wif your cuttin

 

[Black Dog Chainsaw]

Black Dog, yes there is supposed to be a decimal in there.

That’s a clone 511ax. You need to read the manual on setting it up to be symmetrical.

http://en.oregonproducts.com/pdfs/511AX_English_Rev5.pdf

 

[Kenskip1]

Ok, so here is the numbers. These are average. Some are smaller and some are larger by about .02...Left side is (Average) 3.14MM.The right side is (Average) 2.79MM. We are talking an average of.35 MM difference from the left to the right side. The chain cuts great, straight but my eyes can see a difference. The shiny one n the left. The cutters on the right are noticeably shorter than the cutters on the left.

 

[Kenskip1]

Get the cutters sharp and set the rakers with a gauge.

Proceed wif your cuttin

Sir, the cutters are sharp and the rakers are not yet in need of attention. Thanks for the concern.

 

[Black Dog Chainsaw]

Ok, so here is the numbers. These are average. Some are smaller and some are larger by about .02...Left side is (Average) 3.14MM.The right side is (Average) 2.79MM. We are talking an average of.35 MM difference from the left to the right side. The chain cuts great, straight but my eyes can see a difference. The shiny one n the left. The cutters on the right are noticeably shorter than the cutters on the left.View attachment 204998

The 511ax and it’s clones are grinders set up to be symmetrical. IE: same length cutters. Yours is not set up correctly.

Read the manual and follow set up procedures!!!!!!!

 

[Philbert]

I think that I understand that as the wheel gets worn the right side of the cutter is further away from the center of the wheel so I have to lower the head to get the grinding wheel deeper into the tooth. Honestly I am lost.

That vise is supposed to be 'self-centering'. If you can figure out any adjustments in the manual that @Black Dog Chainsaw sent, try those. Note that the Oregon version has a wheel wear adjustment (vice slides forward and back) that yours does not, so the manual may show pictures that do not apply.

Focus on the cutter length adjustment ('P30' in this photo from the Oregon manual). Sharpen each side of the chain separately, then readjust for the other side. Adjust the grinder head height only if the shapes of the gullets are different.


I like to hold the cutters back-to-back to judge the relative lengths (OK, this is an extreme example, but the only photo I could find quickly):


You can do a 'dry set-up' of your grinder to determine which side tends to get ground shorter, and work from there.

Philbert

 

[Kenskip1]

Blackdog,Mine are not set up correctly, then how do I set it up correctly? I am not being a smart azz, but i have just spent the past 90 minutes reading about the 511ax and I could not locate a sentence of the cutters being set up symmetrically.On the above post P29 is simply a backstop used to hold the cutter in position. P 30 sets the tooth into the wheel. This one is critical. Also I sharpen all the cutters on one side first then rotate the vise and proceed to sharpen the cutters on this side.There are no other adjustments other than the wheel depth adjustment and the position of the head.If there are other adjustments then they are not on this machine. BTW, I purchased this from baileys about 8 years ago.It dose a great job as far as sharpening goes but this uneven tooth anomaly has me concerned. Thanks for the file.I am able to read English. Ken[/ATTACH]

 

[Deets066]

Sir, the cutters are sharp and the rakers are not yet in need of attention. Thanks for the concern.

Then your good, the teeth don’t have to be exactly the same length.

 

[Philbert]

The 'P30' adjustment sets the tooth / cutter length.

The 'P29' wheel lets you move the positioning dog side-to-side so that you don't nick it with the grinding wheel when the tooth gets really short.

Philbert

 

[dahmer]

If you are rotating the chain clamp to go from left side to right side, or right to left, if the center pivot bolt is not perfectly dead center and the angle markings not exact then your cutter length will be off and the difference compounds. Check length with your vernier calipers and adjust the stop to compensate as @Philbert said.

 

[Kenskip1]

Conclusion. So after thinking about it I put the chain back onto the grinder and eyeballed the cutter after grinding three teeth.All cutters are now almost symmetrical + - .004ths. I even took some good advice and took the rakers down a skosh. It was cutting great however being as picky as I am,I should have taken more time the last time and done a better job.Live and learn. Here's to those that made this post a blazing success.Thank you, Ken

 

[Philbert]

Glad you got it worked out.

When I was a land surveyor they taught us a bunch of 'tricks' to get accurate angles even if the transit was messed up.

Same thing with the grinder: checking and adjusting works even with a non-centered vise.

'Trust but verify'!

Philbert

 

[Kenskip1]

Glad you got it worked out.

When I was a land surveyor they taught us a bunch of 'tricks' to get accurate angles even if the transit was messed up.

Same thing with the grinder: checking and adjusting works even with a non-centered vise.

'Trust but verify'!

Philbert

I have read the oregon manual front to back. No place did it mention symmetrical. I looked at no 35 on the picture. My grinder does not have this feature. It is underneath.Anyway I have sharpened hundreds of chains.Thanks for your time and information.