Picco vs 325 chain for limbing

[rumatt]

I have two saw that I've been comparing.

1. Stihl 241cm w/ 14" bar and picco RM chain
2. Stihl 261cm w/ 16" bar and 325 RS chain

Comparing them back-to-back, I'm impressed how well the pico slices through medium-sized wood.. to the point that I think it's a better slicer than limber. I'm think I like the 325 better for limbing.

1. The picco seems more likely to bind in smaller branches if I make the cut at a weird angle, or if the branch has tension on it.
2. For thin, loose branches, picco seems more likely to catch and throw the branch rather than cut through it. I spend more time playing footsies with sticks trying to hold them in place with the picco chain than I do the 325.

Is this a known thing? Or am I maybe imagining the difference? I'm guessing it could be any number of the following:

1. 325 has more teeth per section of chain. This might help slice through small branches and cut its way out of binds?
2. 325 is wider so maybe is more forgiving with cutting at an angle?
3. RS vs RM could play a role here, so maybe I should try a picco RS

Any suggestions on what other chains I should try on the 241? Maybe I should run 325 on both saws? What's the lightest, shortest 325 chain that'll fit on a 241?

 

[fearofpavement]

I use Picco chain on a Stihl 018/MS180 and with the .043 gauge, it really limbs well. Chainsaws in general aren't well suited for cutting small diameter material.

 

[Philbert]

'Picco' (aka 3/8 low profile, aka .365) still has larger spacing between cutters than .325 pitch chain, so it will not bridge small diameter limbs as well. Might take a smaller bite, and put less demand on the powerhead, but likely to cut less smoothly on small limbs.

One option you did not mention is .325 narrow kerf (Oregon type 95). It has the closer spacing of teeth, but takes smaller bites in the wood. Used on a lot of Husqvarna chains, and sold by Oregon, Husqvarna, Carlton, and others. Oregon and Husqvarna have released 'high performance' / 'professional' versions of this chain in the past year or so:

https://www.oregonproducts.com/speedcut
https://www.husqvarna.com/us/forest/basics/introducing-husqvarna-x-cut-chainsaw-chain/

Philbert

 

[Terry Syd]

If you can get a NK bar for your Stihl's you should try the .325NK chain. Philbert mentioned the Oregon 95 chain, good chain, but my present preference for .325 NK is Carlton NK. It has a sharper corner and can be made to cut faster with less tendency to 'pull' the branches towards you.

The recent Carton I got has very tough steel and holds up well. I haven't tried the newest 'high performance' VP/X 95 chain, perhaps it is even better.

Get a Husquvarna 'roller guide' kit for .325NK chain and use the 'hardwood' setting for the rakers (it uses less raker depth/shallower cut). The kit will put a proper edge on the cutter and the raker plate will set the cutting angle accurately for all the cutters.

That combination should give you the smoothest cutting - more cutters, less resistance of the cutter entering the wood (NK cutters are thinner and the kerf isn't as wide) and a shallower bite of the wood with the 'hardwood' setting on the rakers.

 

[00wyk]

Rapid Micro is semi chisel chain. Full chisel picco/LP seems to cut more smoothly and be less grabby. Having said that, lopro has never really been a smooth chain, hence the fact Stihl markets a picco chain they call 'comfort' which promises less vibration. Maybe try RSC. Stay away from VXL, or any extended top plate version as they are the opposite of smooth.

 

[GlocknStihl]

Matt, as I told you already, 16" is the shortest 325 bar you can get for that saw. Stihl offers a .325" .050" narrow kerf bar, but only in 18".

18" .325 68DL
50 gauge- 3005 008 7017
23RM68 is the NK Semi Chisel
23RS68 is the NK full chisel
63 gauge- 3005 008 4717
26RM68 SEMI
26RS68 FULL


16" 325 62DL
It shows two numbers, not sure of the difference.
3005 008 4713
3005 000 4713
26RM62 SEMI
26RS62 FULL

The full chisel Picco chain is a PS. For your 14" bar you want 63PS50.

The part number for the Rim Sprocket kit to convert to 325 is 1143 007 1003 or if you just want a 7t spur in 325 it is 1143 640 2002.

 

[Philbert]

What's the lightest, shortest 325 chain that'll fit on a 241?

16" is the shortest 325 bar you can get for that saw.

Oregon and aftermarket (e.g. Bailey's Woodland Pro) may offer additional options. If you are going much shorter, you might also want to consider a smaller cc saw to save weight.

Shorter bars available if you are willing to use PICCO/ 3/8 low pro or 1/4" pitch.



Philbert

 

[GlocknStihl]

@Philbert

He has a 14" bar on it right now in Picco. I have never seen a 14" in 325. Oregons Picco chains are all reduced kickback, and 325 options are limited in the 3005 mount.

 

[Terry Syd]

23RS68 is the NK full chisel

I never heard of a NK full chisel chain. Is it really full chisel?

If so, don't tell Saw Troll...

 

[GlocknStihl]

I never heard of a NK full chisel chain. Is it really full chisel?

If so, don't tell Saw Troll...

Yes, it is a normal Stihl RS (Rapid Super) in .325" .050".

As a matter of fact, I have that exact chain on my 445 Hooskie.

 

[GlocknStihl]

I never heard of a NK full chisel chain. Is it really full chisel?

If so, don't tell Saw Troll...

See the full chisel cutter?

 

[Terry Syd]

I don't doubt the cutter, however it appears the chain is standard .325 in .50 gauge. I was wondering if the chain was actually a Narrow Kerf chain.

 

[GlocknStihl]

I don't doubt the cutter, however it appears the chain is standard .325 in .50 gauge. I was wondering if the chain was actually a Narrow Kerf chain.

I'll measure the width on my 325/50 chain and my 325/63 and get back to you with the results.

I guess I just assumed since it was made to fit the narrow kerf Husqvarnas, then it would be NK. Now I'm curious.

 

[Philbert]

[I have never seen a 14" in 325. . . . 325 options are limited in the 3005 mount.

Yeah, I was trying to point out the narrow kerf options. Several smaller bars in 3/8 low profile and 1/4". I am not sure that I even like 1/4" on pole saws, but that would give the smoothest cut.

Again, might want to go with a smaller saw for balance, etc.

http://www.baileysonline.com/shop.axd/Search?keywords=narrow+kerf+guide+bar+STIHL&page_no=1&fq=1_category:2286

Philbert

 

[pro94lt]

Picco is definitely less grabby than .325 in my opinion. What type of trees? How do you cut? You may be thinking the picco is more grabby because your applying the chain into the wood with much less chain speed... applying the same throttle on a smaller saw vs a larger saw that revs the chain faster... 241 has what sprocket? 261 has 7 pin 325 rim? I won't let my ground guys run the 550xps because the chains are to grabby on the ground vs the 241/421

 

[Keith Gandy]

Picco is definitely less grabby than .325 in my opinion. What type of trees? How do you cut? You may be thinking the picco is more grabby because your applying the chain into the wood with much less chain speed... applying the same throttle on a smaller saw vs a larger saw that revs the chain faster... 241 has what sprocket? 261 has 7 pin 325 rim? I won't let my ground guys run the 550xps because the chains are to grabby on the ground vs the 241/421

Chain speed is key IMO with picco PS as I run it on a Cannon 16" Supermini limbing and bucking and notice it bucks alil at lower rpm. The tooth spacing is almost skip chain which on .375 skip will do the same at lower rpm

 

[CR888]

23RS is just regular kerf .325 full chisel chain. A number of good suggestions for the OP but the 'new kid on the block' is......(snare-drum-roll).....!! Low profile .325!! Thats right you can now buy .325 pitch on a low profile chassis. Only catch is its at this stage only in .043 gauge & a LP drive sprocket would be neccesary along with a LP sprocket nose bar, but you have to do that with 3/8 lp anyhow. Don't know anyone who's cut with it but its in catalogues and available for order.

 

[Philbert]

. . . the 'new kid on the block' is......(snare-drum-roll).....!! Low profile .325!! Thats right you can now buy .325 pitch on a low profile chassis. . . . its in catalogues and available for order.

Who is making it? Who is selling it?

Thanks.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Oregon .325 low profile:

SpeedCut Nano

https://www.oregonproducts.com/en/speedcutnano

"An All-New System
SpeedCut Nano has been engineered from the ground up with maximum efficiency in mind. Built to optimize saw performance, SpeedCut Nano meets the demands of tree care professionals like no other system on the market.

SpeedCut Nano is the first ever .325 Low Profile cutting system. By sizing the chain to better match the specific power range of battery-powered and compact light-weight gas-powered saws, we’ve maximized the chain’s efficiency for improved performance.

Increased Speed
New patented-shape, Nano cutters are designed to maximize cutting speed, empowering compact saws to take on big projects. Oregon’s multi-axis factory grind creates a razor sharp edge, providing exceptional cutting performance right out of the box.

Longer Run Time
The unique design of SpeedCut Nano 80TXL increases saw cutting efficiency by as much as 15%*. So you can spend more time working, and less time recharging or refueling.

Smooth Cuts
With a clean entry, SpeedCut Nano pulls effortlessly through the cut – nearly eliminating cutting chatter. Oregon’s Micro-Chisel cutter stays sharp in tough conditions while providing a precision surface quality professionals expect.

Unstoppable Performance
Because SpeedCut Nano is been designed for the specific power range of today’s battery and compact gas saws, you won’t be left stalled in the cut.
Chain Type

Pitch

Gauge

Sequence

80TXL

.325" Low Profile™
.043" Standard
Bar Lengths: 10-16" (25-40 cm)

Currently Unavailable

*When compared to Oregon 90PX 3/8” Pitch Low-Profile Chain.
"

Philbert

 

[Terry Syd]

OK, somebody has to get a loop of this stuff so we can take a look at it. I wonder how different it is to .325 NK.

I get the impression they may have reduced the thickness of the cutters and drivers, which may be why the it uses .43 gauge.

Standard .325 is 1.25mm thickness on the cutters.
.325 NK is 1mm thickness.
And .325 Nano is ?? - if a lower profile than NK, it probably has a reduction in cutter thickness.

It makes sense for the smaller saws. The NK chain is built on the standard .325 chassis and can be used on strong saws (the chassis is used on piped 77cc racing saws in Oz). The smaller saws don't need that much strength, so the Nano is likely a thinner chassis and probably another reduction in the thickness of the cutters.