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ctylerc1995

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"Porting" a saw.

This is my first attempt of doing any major modifications to a saw. And only the second that I've cut squish on. Any suggestions are welcome. The victim is my MS461, roughly 2 gallon of fuel through it.
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Got it stripped down and I was happy to see the amount of oil on the crank, I've been mixing 42.5:1 using STIHL 2 mix (the grey bottles)
The carbon on the piston suggest it's a wee bit rich I guess but I'd rather have that than lean.
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Here is the cylinder, started off with about 40 thou. of piston clearance and was right around 185 PSI cold
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I roughed it in with a dial indicator then to get more accurate I switched to this gem, that reads to 0.00005 and got it to less than 0.00002 centered, and then got the run out adjusted with the nuts at the cylinder base. When you do this, it's changes the center at the top, so I went back and got it centered again.
I know it's just a saw and these tolerances don't matter that much but I'm a perfectionist when it comes to machine work.
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Getting the spin on with a WWII US Navy Lodge & Shipley, this was once on a navy ship, however I don't know the name of it.
No pictures of the cutting process I was too nervous, I turned it around 200 RPM and cut 50 thou. deep.
Next to turn a mandril...
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Don't remember the exact size, roughly 2.060" then polished to exact bore size, AFTER cooling because of the size reducing when cooled, which would creat a smaller mandril. This was some type of stainless I used to make pump components for the coal mines a few months back, the only thing I had around 2.5" and long enough.
 
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ctylerc1995

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So original clearance was 40 thou and cut 50 so 90 thou -30 thou =60 thou to cut.
I done this in one pass with the auto feed slow as it could go feeding outward and 90 rpm, took a long time, but resulting finish was mirror quality.

Then I was too anxious to get this saw back together I quit taking pictures.
Then I put the cylinder on and check clearance and it was right at 30, which is what I was going for. I then marked port timings and only the exhaust needed to be moved a bit. And I just polished the intake and exhaust.
 
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ctylerc1995

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The compression results:
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This gauge is showing 235 however when I checked it with my digital gauge it was showing 225 psi which is what I'm going with.

Got about 2" of rain in the past week so no cutting, but hopefully some frozen temps returning this weekend to my little corner of SW VA, so videos soon hopefully!
 

sefh3

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Wow. How bad does it bite with 235lbs of compression? I wish to add a lathe to my tool list in the future. Lots do potential then.
 

ctylerc1995

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If I use the decompression valve and get the piston to right after TDC and drop start it, not bad. But the decomp still pops out even if it don't start, which is a PITA. However if it's not got the flywheel mass helping you through the compression, you can forget about getting it through the stroke.
 

drf256

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Nice work, got some questions....

So you started with a squish of .040. You cut .050 out of the band. So then you had .090, then you took .060 from the base for a final squish of .030?

Isn't there some issue with clearance of the torx bolt heads on the crankscraper doohickey thing if you cut the base? That was my recollection when Randy did a 441/461. Either the bolt heads had to be turned down or the jug clearanced for them.

Use a base gasket?

You took a lot from the band, and you left your squish loose. Any reason you picked .030? A tighter squish clearance will give you more squish velocity and more detonation resistance, but your compression will likely be through the roof if you tighten it.

Also, any pics of what you did to the ports? The transfers should have moved much more than the exhaust with that much cut off the jug. I bet you've got some crazy high blowdown numbers if you raised the exhaust and not the transfers.

Is that compression reading after a run or at initial assembly with oiled rings? If that's after a run, you may have too much compression when it breaks in.

Good luck with the saw. I'm just asking questions because porting fascinates me. The geometric changes, changes in airflow, etc...

I hope I'm not coming off as an ass.
 
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mdavlee

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.030" is a bit wide for squish. I would prefer tighter if it was mine.
 

ctylerc1995

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The torx bolts that hold the case stuffer is only a clearance issue if you delete the base gasket. Yes I have the base gasket on the saw.
The compression was after about 15 minutes of run time and cooling overnight.
30 clearance was what I chose because of where the transfers end up would end up, I didn't want to mess with them because of the "strato charging", however due to 225 psi already, knock is becoming a risk soon and I run 93 octane as it the only E free I can source locally. Not to mention it's already a process to get this thing to pull over smooth, AND major issue with higher compression is HEAT I'd much rather loose some performance to have a cooler running saw but the biggest concern to me is added crank stress.
With the jug off if you get a pretty flow of water going through you can really see the cyclone/charge direction created by the geometry of the transfers and I really didn't want to touch that.. I think the exhaust only moved 20 thou to achieve the opening timing of 101, however no pictures but I intend to open it back up and check on things after a few hours of run and will try to get some.
 
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