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"Must Do" Tweaks To Make A Farmertec MS660 a HTSS MS660..:)

Discussion in 'Sub-forum for these Rice Burner 660 builds' started by afleetcommand, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. afleetcommand

    afleetcommand Pinnacle OPE Member

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  2. smokey7

    smokey7 Pinnacle OPE Member

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    Nice job with the fuel line rigging in the 925. I Did that to get by on my echo 452 one weekend. Also on the 660s would you put the list of required parts possibly with the part numbers in list form here please? Im serously considering ordering a kit but kinda want to price it all out and way my options. I know i dont have much for stihl dealer support unless i come in with a parts list with numbers. If i heard right you use a oem pin bearing better clutch oem lines oem vent oem clips some oem carb and trigger parts chain brake spring. What else am i forgetting? Or listing wron ss required parts to make a reliable safe strong saw. I know some are switching to better top end kits some hyway some cross some meteor. The ultra cheap top end kits just dont last for me or anyone ive seen use them on saws. What say you?
     
  3. T.Roller

    T.Roller Huffy and Puffy, Roll Tighter Tater....

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    Mine is completely out of the kit except the chain adjuster, worm gear, and gas cap.
     
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  4. T.Roller

    T.Roller Huffy and Puffy, Roll Tighter Tater....

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    And the cross mmws top end is the way to go.
     
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  5. p61 western

    p61 western Jon1212 Approved!

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    Need to post the video of shooting the cylinder lmao.
     
  6. smokey7

    smokey7 Pinnacle OPE Member

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    I probably agree for a better quality and performance too. But some had issues with them not being true to base/bore and snagging rings from too flat of ports. Its really a game with aftermarket stuff. Hell your kit may have had more suitable parts then the next one.
     
  7. T.Roller

    T.Roller Huffy and Puffy, Roll Tighter Tater....

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    Exactly. Quality control is non existing. Unless your gonna run one of these kits alot, most the parts will be fine. Are they as good as oem? No but will they work? Yes. Your talking alot of money when you start throwing oem parts at a kit saw might as well buy a used real 660
     
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  8. afleetcommand

    afleetcommand Pinnacle OPE Member

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    Lemecee.....OEM trigger & choke about $15, a Hyway handle about $35, shimming the chain adjust about $5 for the brass, tweaking the carb..$0, Decomp? $10, Bar Studs $9, Chain Brake Spring...depends, some are good as they come, its a geometry thing. Have we approached Used OEM yet? As far as other AM cylinder's, they all have their statistical issues. The FT's actually run pretty well and statistically match the "other" AM cylinders in carnage creation in my experience.. :) A 54mm FT with a pair of finger ports will out perform any of the AM options if that is the definition of win. TO me a whole lot of energy is wasted on cookies vs. reliability and day to day useful life of these saws...

    I think I'm finally getting a handle on that type of thing, plus or minus a few wrinkles in quality control where one part or another add's a challenge. Cautiously optimistic as the three built after the carnage of that one top end are STILL out in a real production environment. One has a different crank and Hyway popup piston, pull start and a few other Hyway supplied parts. Endurance testing as I do before a video review. Just as I was attempting to do with that other highly hyped top end before two bottom ends fragged. The second top end I had from there went on a saw for some Amish folks. It fragged too. Don't know if it did for the same reasons. Put an end to that review! Assume it was a statistical anomaly but have no way of knowing for certain. And don't have time to find out. On the three saws built after that event with FT cylinders, I've been taking the attitude that no news is good news. They all went through the evolution described in my video. Plus my Farmer Jones build in that video gets weekly use now as the season begins along side the video and project saws. The first 56mm saw built in 2015 still runs fine. It has the chain brake spring, shimmed chain adjust, decomp swapped with OEM, and a Walbro. Bling saw is getting upgraded as we speak. It also has a Walbro but I am considering going back to FT with what I have learned.

    The other 4 or 5 out with a variety of other folks all seem to be surviving and have most of those updates with the exception of the trigger and choke as the first ones I had didn't have that issue, or the soft bar studs. They have OEM clutch drums and Walbro's as I hadn't yet figured a way to get consistent performance with the as delivered carbs & now the "Drums" seem to be OK as well from FT.

    My suggestion? If your just tinkering, build the kit and just solve the issues one by one as they appear. Cheap. Educational. And fun. If you actually plan to use the end result for real, do the few things I suggested up front then pick your way thru the tuning and other little issues that are bound to show up. But that first few weeks will be productive from a cutting perspective and the aggravation that would happen if your work is hindered will be substantially reduced. Just an opinion from an old man over seeing around 20 of those things, some built by me and some by other folks locally who then came for advise. :) (Those damn videos! )
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  9. T.Roller

    T.Roller Huffy and Puffy, Roll Tighter Tater....

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    The guy above mentioned a new carb and clutch, that's what I was getting at. As for the Farmertec jugs, complete junk. The 2 I got 1) after 3 tanks had lost alot of plating already under the exhaust port and was garbage at that point 2) had a very large "ring of death " straight out of the box. I had another sent to me and I have yet to use it but it looks ok.
     
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  10. afleetcommand

    afleetcommand Pinnacle OPE Member

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    And of course if you read to the end you would realize I have gone back to FT for the clutch and the carb. AND the FT cylinders I've had vary. The 56mm's all had casting and plating issues, all except the "first" ones, but after they changed suppliers I had 100 percent issues with a test set of 10. At that point I did recommend several time to avoid them. Some of the 54's did, but that later ones are doing well. And I'm looking at a statistical lot of over 20 vs. 3. If I used your metric, 100 percent of hyped top ends would have failed. But I know there are plenty of success stories so it wouldn't be reasonable to make a final determination on that small a statistical set...:) I moved on and now have a few top ends from other sources to evaluate. Only so much time to spend on a hobby. And those Swedish saws are drawing me away as well.

    And the beauty of this entire concept is even IF the cylinder supplied has issues, how expensive is it to get a Hyway or better AM option as an upgrade? Another 50-100 bucks? Even used OEM. Combined with all the other suggestions maybe 150? On top of a 300 kit...still under that threshold of being a waste of time...for a person who wants ownership in building a puzzle. If a person needs OEM consistency and durability...buy OEM. End of story. :) Ultimately that's my recommendation every time.

    ( And why in my last video, I'll defer to the "experts" wanting to give expert advise extrapolating from their experiences. I really just want to document my experiences and finding, simply empirical data from my trials and tribulations. Folks can derive what they choose from that.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
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  11. T.Roller

    T.Roller Huffy and Puffy, Roll Tighter Tater....

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    I'm just sharing My experiences with others. Whether or not they want to use it or not I could care less. If I have different findings than someone else of course I will post then up, that way it's common knowledge which is why this sit is here, to share. Happy that someone has enough time to test 20 of these cause I sure don't and I'm sure everyone appreciates that.
     
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  12. afleetcommand

    afleetcommand Pinnacle OPE Member

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    So..sounds like a ditto. To quantify, I didn't buy 20+ sets, I happened to get asked because some locally who both bought kits and watched the video's saw that as an implied invitation...so I dug into a bunch more than the 10 or so I stuck together.....I've "slowed" that down as I have to focus more on autotunes and the like. Time management has become a priority as well so the fun stuff has to wait from this point forward
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
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  13. MustangMike

    MustangMike ONE OF THE GREATEST!

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    I have done 3 of these saws, and worked on a 4th, and the chain adjuster issues have all been different. The large gear that comes with the kits is larger than OEM and other AM, and sometimes does not clear the case. In one saw I put in OEM w/o any issues, in another saw it stripped the OEM because it was not shimmed. I have also found the HL Supply chain adjusters to be of good quality and low price. The amount of shimming I have needed has varied by saw.

    I really like the Cross P+Cs, well worth the money. If you clean up the bevels and delete the base gasket most will run strong and not give you any problems. IMO, they will beat any other jug that does not have port work, and I like that they come with Caber rings.

    I also use O rings from the auto store under the fuel cap, and OEM piston pin bearings ($10). The only mod I do to the muffler is a 1/2" hole in the lower center of the baffle. Results in a great running saw at a very attractive price.
     
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  14. smokey7

    smokey7 Pinnacle OPE Member

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    @MustangMikeso how many clones do you have total now 5? The 2 660s and now the 3 440s. Do they feel similar to a oem saw? Like if you wemt in a dark shop could you tell when you pick one up or a oem saw and know which you have in hand? What do you really have planned for then use wise? Just put them in the rotation and use them instead of wearing out your oem saws or loaners or sell them to family and friends? Seems like alot of saws for even a saw nut to have around unless you have a plan for them. Thank you for reporting your findings for us here and talking about the mods/workarounds you had to do on each one.
     
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  15. MustangMike

    MustangMike ONE OF THE GREATEST!

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    The 440 just came to life yesterday, so I will hold judgement on that.

    IMO, the Asian 660 just feel like more powerful Stihl saws, unless the Stihl has been ported. That is entirely thanks to the Cross MMWS P+C option on the saws (on my 066 and the Asian Twins). I use them for cutting big stuff (they don't routinely come with me) and for milling. I currently have 2 Stihl 066s (on ported by Randy for milling, and one with the Cross P+C that is in the HL Supply video) and two Asian 660s, both done over by Dr Al.

    My brother, and the guy next door, each wanted and got one of the Asian Twins, so I don't have them any more.

    The saws have different bar lengths, and different milling attachments. You can't cut rounds with a saw with a milling attachment, and I often use my Logisol Timberjig to make the first flat side, then the board making mill to do the rest of it.
     
  16. Stump Shot

    Stump Shot Old *pretty boy dipstick of Quality

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    My 066 fuel cap peed on me right through the middle of it. :mad: It made me madder than Donald Trump with an empty can of hairspray I tell ya...
     
  17. MustangMike

    MustangMike ONE OF THE GREATEST!

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    I've seen factory ones do that when they get old. Don't know why the cap is two piece. Win goes to Flippy Caps, even the Asian ones don't leak!
     
  18. tickbitintn

    tickbitintn Pinnacle OPE Member

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    I had one leak like that also....
    Peed me off too...
    After it peed on me....
     
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  19. T.Roller

    T.Roller Huffy and Puffy, Roll Tighter Tater....

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    Same here. Just went and bought a oem one. They are cheap enough.
     
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  20. tickbitintn

    tickbitintn Pinnacle OPE Member

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    I have one all put together and have not even fueled it yet...
    Had about every issue you could with one so I would assume that the cap with puke all over on this one...

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
     
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