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MTronic diagnostics / ecm failure symptoms

PogoInTheWoods

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Gotcha. Point was, M-tronics are, shall we say, just a little different? (Being sarcastic). I'm not familiar with your herd or experience. Just suggesting the obvious in case it was overlooked. May be another silly suggestion, but how's that air filter look? Linkages all working ok without anything in the way? I highly doubt it's the ECM unless it simply isn't responding correctly to a proper calibration. The test for an ECM is basically if it generates spark it's working. Don't count on any type of sophisticated dealer diagnosis with the MDG software..., if they even have it.

Just saw the next post. Solenoid will probably do the trick. Orange fuel filter in that rascal?
 

drf256

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Disappointing to hear that these problems are happening. I guess any mechanical device has some failure rate, but even these rarities seem excessive to me.

I like MT saws a lot, when they work. This sort of thing makes me want a screwdriver saw.

Frustrating that diagnosis and treatment for these issues is parts replacement and finger crossing without other diagnostic means.

What I can’t fix with a screwdriver makes me wanna use a BFH.
 

Duane(Pa)

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Disappointing to hear that these problems are happening. I guess any mechanical device has some failure rate, but even these rarities seem excessive to me.

I like MT saws a lot, when they work. This sort of thing makes me want a screwdriver saw.

Frustrating that diagnosis and treatment for these issues is parts replacement and finger crossing without other diagnostic means.

What I can’t fix with a screwdriver makes me wanna use a BFH.
Good thing you have a long fuse Bro!
I think “we” sense these problems sooner and perceive them more severe than most other segments. For most, if it starts, runs and cuts it’s good. I really shouldn’t talk, as I haven’t had any trouble yet. Knock on wood...
 

angelo c

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Just my 2c... changing the solenoid takes about 15 minutes if you cant find the beer handle. You should have a few extra and they fail about as often as a spark plug. I've gone years without one failing then they go out all in a bunch. Ya never know but if your living depends on an AT saw bring a spare and eliminate that early in the problem solving phase. I think you need a T20 for the little screws and that's about it. Maybe a needlenose or a hemostat. 661s are funny about the air filter too. Take it off and do a reset just for chits and giggles.
 

ABarrick

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Work has been nuts and I haven’t had time to mess with it. I did run it some more a few days ago to cut up some storm damage oak and it ran good as far as power is concerned but still sluggish off idle compared to my other 462. I’ll update once I get it straightened out.
 

PogoInTheWoods

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Did you get the newer fuel filter with the solenoid? Seems pretty clear that Stihl has been concerned with contaminants affecting solenoid performance and longevity.
 

RI Chevy

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I thought did a 462 mtron vs. 462 carb comparison. Carb was a tad stronger.
 

ABarrick

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With two different saws, there’s too many variables to say definitively one way or the other. They’re close enough to where it’s user preference. I like the carbed saw better overall mostly because I can adjust out whatever quirk might appear due to weather, fuel, condition changes, etc. The moronic system will do it for me but it takes it longer to make me happy.
 

Skisawyer

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@ABarrick your tricky trouble shoot situation is precisely why I am still scared of mtronic. I know lots of people love em, but I having tune issues an hour drive out in the woods would be a real bummer.

I do hope husky’s version 3.0 in the 550mark2 is well sorted. I have a proper dealer with good service support in that line, which is a real shame for Stihl, as I prefer the ms-261 in hand.

Hope things slow down and you can get it figured out, maybe with some dealer support, I dunno. Best of luck.
 

av8or3

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Whatever. I'd at least throw some fresh mix at it before chasing ECM ghosts and jumping through all those other hoops.

Sure would be embarrassing to take it to the dealer for a new solenoid or ECM diagnosis (which basically doesn't exist anyway) just to find it didn't like the particular batch of fuel in the tank..., or worse...the mix oil!
Why do you say that ECM diagnosis doesn’t exist anyway?
 

PogoInTheWoods

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Why do you say that ECM diagnosis doesn’t exist anyway?

Because it doesn't..., at least not in the manner one would think it should for such a system. Stihl would have you believe the MDG unit is a diagnostic tool for troubleshooting and identifying problems with the M-tronic systems. It isn't. It's primary purpose is as an interface to the ECM for extracting, viewing, and printing limited data from the module (and in the future, possibly upgrading ECM's). It doesn't troubleshoot or diagnose performance issues aside from being an overly glorified and very expensive spark tester in lieu of shorting the plug to the cylinder and possibly trashing the ECM in the process. If it did what Stihl would have you believe it does, it could tell you whether or not you had a bad solenoid, which it can't. It could tell your altitude relative to the air/fuel ratio, which it can't -- even though Stihl claims the M-tron system adjusts for altitude. It adjusts for air/fuel relative to rpms and timing, (and perhaps case temperature), but hardly relative to sea level. No altimeters on these saws. No external sensors at all except a thermometer inside the ECM to sense and record general case surface temperature. Can't tell you if the carb is bad. Can't even tell you if the micro-switch is bad. Can tell you how many times it's been started and what the general conditions were, but that's about it for data.
Can walk a tech through the reset and cal process. But that's about it for the bell and whistle part. Basically doesn't tell you any more than the dealer will if you take your poorly or non-running M-tronic unit in for diagnosis..., even if he has the MDG system sitting right there on the counter.

"Well, it's either the carb, the solenoid, or the ECM..., or maybe the fuel filter. Have you tried a new plug?"

The M-tronic system is based on a very, very fast counter that monitors RPMs and timing to control a very, very fast switch that tells the solenoid what to do as an air/fuel mix valve on what is essentially a fixed jet carburetor. Period. It's all based on the desired performance algorithms programmed into the ECM firmware and how they respond to the physical changes of the saw as counted and processed. Sophisticated? Yes. Complicated? No.

All the above stated, (and generally understood simply from a certain degree of experience and research on the matter), I'm hardly an expert on the subject. And I'm pretty sure there's a guy with a test rig somewhere who can literally watch the algorithms in action, look at a bunch of numbers, and tell whether or not an M-tron saw has a bad solenoid or was running lean for an extended period of time before the bottom end bearing failed. It's just not gonna be a guy at your local dealer, or probably anywhere else here in the states for that matter as I understand the majority of the M-tron research and development is happening in Germany... and on the Husky side in Sweden, of course.

Good fuel. Clean (and correct) fuel filters, a coupla spare solenoids..., life is good..., until the saw won't start. Diagnosis?

Try a new plug.
 
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av8or3

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Wow, that is a read. I just bought one of those MDG1 brand new from a dealer. I can tell you that it can indeed do some of the things you believe it cannot. More than a few anyway. I’ve only owned it now for a week and so I’m no pro on it either. I do have both MTronic and Fuel Injection machines as well and I intend to make the most of it. Only one I’ve had time to mess with is the FI hookup and diagnostics. It’s overly simple I think, because it’s distributed all over the planet and Stihl (I think) would want it to be useful and easy to use no matter where it landed or for who. Think Pictograms. There’s trouble codes, so far I’m thinking it’s a lot like an enhanced OBDII scanner for a car. Some products (ALL from 2000 - on are in there) don’t require hooking into the spark plug, some do. FI does not, the cables hook the analyzer up in the operational loop. The blue tooth adapter is an especially long range (100m) claimed which allows you to run the saw outside and record the run, turn the saw off come inside , review and make adjustments, ect. The kit also includes some covers to protect you if you have to run the saw without covers. Keep saw cool, protect hands. It still looks pretty cool to me. It automatically search’s for updates when internet is detected. You can’t get it by reading about it. It’s not in print. You have to sit down with the machine. AND when things slow down for me I’ll start breaking a saw (if I have too) and let it show me how to fix it. I really enjoy that stuff, so I’m looking forward to it.
 

PogoInTheWoods

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I gather you don't have much faith in your dealer to properly take care of your saws for you!

I'll be very interested in how you feel about the unit after becoming more familiar with its capabilities and limitations. By all means, please share your experience as you go.

Out of curiosity, did the unit come with a license for firmware upgrades as well?
 

av8or3

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image.jpg image.jpg Nope no license required. You’re given a website to go to to download the required software on a card inside the kit. It includes the login info. It’s not that I don’t have a dealer that I have faith in. I have a couple that are useful in different ways. It’s more I’d rather not need one. I’m no different with my cars, generator, appliances, I’m sure you get it. I am at least as prepared to repair my saws (the new ones) as the folks employed to do it. And more so than a few. Anyway, it’s really all about learning and benefiting from it and trying to have some fun along the way.
I will be sure to post all the stuff I think you’d find interesting. Maybe some screen shots of the pictograms Ive encountered so far LOL.
 
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