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MS461 high side RPM variance....?

Discussion in 'Chainsaws' started by Aggie2012, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. Aggie2012

    Aggie2012 Well-Known OPE Member

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    Good morning men

    Need some advice or maybe somewhat of an explanation. (I might just be overthinking things)

    I've got an MS461 that Randy did for me and it runs fantastic.
    I am trying to keep the RPM's on the high side around 14,200. I start the saw, let it idle for a minute or saw, make a few small cuts and adjust to this number.
    After 5 to 10 minutes of cutting (half a tank of fuel or so) I check RPM's again and I find my self lingering around 14,600 or even 14,700 which isn't that big of a deal because she's still 4 stroking at that point.

    My question is am I not letting it warm up enough before I make the appropriate adjustments? Why did I lean out that much more from where I had just adjusted?

    (I'll start it again tomorrow and RPMs will be around 13,800 due to my adjustments made to fatten it back down but I guess I should run it this way till it gets hot then check?)

    Do these engines vary that much when not all the way hot?

    Thanks for helping put my mind at ease


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  2. Moparmyway

    Moparmyway Its just a saw

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    You've answered your own question Sir.


    You should only trim or adjust it after she is good and warm.
     
  3. Aggie2012

    Aggie2012 Well-Known OPE Member

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    Thanks Mopar,

    That is what I needed to hear


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  4. drf256

    drf256 Giant Member (and Fartknocker)

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    The saw has increased compression. It will heat up more than a stocker with prolonged cuts. Happens to all saws, just more accentuated on the ported ones. Plus, it's summer and the ambient temps are brutal. Plus you love saws and pay more attention than the average Joe.

    I'd tune it fatter for bigger wood and longer cuts. As long as it ain't 4 stroking in the wood too much.

    Fatter is safer and runs cooler. Generally makes more torque as well. As long as you put on your big boy pants and accept that a strong saw doesn't need to run at 20,000 rpm to be a good ported saw.

    I tune my 026's down to 13400 for bucking long cuts and up to 15k for limbing. Both are 4 stroking out of the cut and clean in the cut. If I tune one at 15k and then make a 30 second cut, it will be winding out near 16k when it comes out of the wood.
     
  5. Aggie2012

    Aggie2012 Well-Known OPE Member

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    Ah ha! Yes sir that makes perfect sense. Id much rather have the torque than the RPM's. and would certainly like this saw to last for a very long time.

    On a side note I've got a seized up 026 that was given to me from a local lineman that I'm looking forward to fixing up. Heard a lot of good things on these saws. What all have you done to yours? (Increased squish and open up ports?)


    I sure appreciate your two cents here


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  6. drf256

    drf256 Giant Member (and Fartknocker)

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    Not trying to be a Dick, but can't answer that so easily.

    I've done many things, but the real 026 guru here is @Basher
     
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  7. TreeLife

    TreeLife A swollen member

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    AL is being humble, his 026/260's are the things of legend.
     
  8. Basher

    Basher Super OPE Member

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    Your findings and what you have posted is all very similar to my experiences with the 026 and MS260 saws. Fatter tunes for heavy prolonged cuts and torque and can be leaned out for real small stuff and liming where the engine is running free and the rpm can feed plenty of air from the flywheel to the cylinder fins.Run the best quality oil you can afford at 40:1 and these saw will last. Myself and my cutting partner have beat these saws hard day in and out in all types of weather, not your average running either but using 3 tanks per hour constant, heat,rain and snow the trees must come down in a timely manner,contract cutting is real hard on gear. Our saws are ported for max rpm when needed but can be dialed back for torque if need be but I take 5-6 saws out each day, usually 3 of the 026`s and a 362 +044 for bigger stuff.
     
  9. paragonbuilder

    paragonbuilder ONE OF THE GREATEST!

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    Blasphemy!



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  10. Ryan Browne

    Ryan Browne Pinnacle OPE Member

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    Can I ask what you're using for air filters, and how/how often you have to clean them?

    That's some major use. It's incredible that a saw designed so long ago can be ported to perform beyond its original capacity and hold up to this type of use!
     
  11. mdavlee

    mdavlee Hillbilly grinder

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    Any saw with a healthy compression increase will keep gaining rpm til its at peak operating temperature. I've seen over 1k gain in one milling cut that was 6-7 minutes long and a full tank.
     
  12. Aggie2012

    Aggie2012 Well-Known OPE Member

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    Thank You For your reply Basher,

    Do you guys Run 87 octane or do y'all buy a premium ethanol free gasoline?
    Just curious to know what you use so maybe I can duplicate the results with my saws in terms of longevity.

    I've been buying Motul 710 2t and mixing 40:1 with ethanol free 87 octane for most of my saws but recently bought a few gallon cans of the VP racing premix at 50:1 and added in 1tbs and 1 tsp of the Motul. (I don't run my 461 that often so i use this VP stuff exclusively for that saw)

    Wish I could find a source for 94 octane ethanol free fuel and run that on everything I've got.

    (Sorry for side tracking here)




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  13. Dub11

    Dub11 Some body poisoned the watering hole!

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    Stick with the 87 e free it'll make more power.
     
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  14. Aggie2012

    Aggie2012 Well-Known OPE Member

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    Thanks Dub,

    Only thing that concerns me is does it burn a lot hotter?

    Yesterday I was cutting at 99 degrees with 95% humidity.

    Or is the margin of difference minimal?



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  15. Dustin4185

    Dustin4185 Super OPE Member

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    On as side note, those @Matermind 461s are something aren't they. I have one and it is a joy to run.
     
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  16. Dub11

    Dub11 Some body poisoned the watering hole!

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    From what I have read you get a more complete burn so more power with the 87. These motor have a high cyclinder pressure but a low compression ratio cause of the short stroke nature of the motors. So I guess if you wanted it to run cooler the yes a higher octane could achieve that. I run 102 just cause I can mix a gallon of it for the same price as a quart of vp and I know its e free.


    This is just what I have read saying this as a disclaimer I'm usually wrong 14-27 times a day.
     
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  17. Aggie2012

    Aggie2012 Well-Known OPE Member

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    Mornin Dustin

    I embarrassed to say the number of nights it has kept me awake. Haha!
    The treatment and care I give this Mastermind Masterpiece is similar to that of my 4 month old baby.

    .......Can ya tell I'm obsessed with it!?!?

    (The wife thinks I'm a total nut case)

    I run a 25" full comp but am thinking of getting a 32" for felling some of these big oaks that I've got.

    Think she'd pull it or would I have to go to a semi chain?

    I don't have the R version so I'm somewhat concerned over the oiler output.



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  18. Basher

    Basher Super OPE Member

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    I run the wire mesh winter filters, yikes, I know they are not what is considered a good filter but my saws don`t know that, they get blown out each evening after work, fresh filed chain and filled with fuel and bar oil. They like to breathe through those wide open ports and the fuel flows profusely but the amount of work they get done per hour, day in and out without repair or down time was what I built them for. No EPA crap jamming up their intake or exhaust. I run high test, 97 eth free,same as my boat engines get and the top of the pistons have no carbon on them with hundreds of hours use. The squish is set at .017 - .019 on them all with just the ridge removed from the cylinder head, the rest is just porting 101.....LOL
     
  19. Dub11

    Dub11 Some body poisoned the watering hole!

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    http://opeforum.com/threads/modifying-oil-pumps.3793/

    This might be helpful
     
  20. Dustin4185

    Dustin4185 Super OPE Member

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    Not sure I would run a 32" very long. I ran one for about 10 minutes and it showed signs of not enough oil. This was in a big dead red oak. I have a 395 now, so I will stick with it for big bar stuff! I don't know why Randy didn't mention this oiler mod when he had my saw. I would of had him do it then. I may attempt it on mine, but I am a little skeered to start hacking a newish saw.
     
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