MS 461 Saddle - What is the Purpose

[MustangMike]

Since there was considerable debate in another thread, the suggestion was made to start a new thread.

So here we go. I have heard the purpose of this saddle is to deflect fuel up into the piston to aid in cooling the piston. My understanding is that the method used to meet emissions in this model saw generated additional heat.

Any information to confirm, deny, or reflect any other purpose is appreciated.

Happy New Year everyone!

 

[paragonbuilder]

Awesome! Thanks Mike.


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[Derf]

That’s an interesting theory, Mike. Very possible.

Stihl calls that part a flange.

To me it looks like it is designed to hold the two halves of the case together in a location that might possibly not be well secured by any nearby bolt.

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

I would hope someone in the debate has already called the stihl engineering dept to ask.
I'll venture to say the thing is supposed to sweep volume away from the inside of the piston while simultaneously forcing mix up to wet the pin bearing. That's all I can see it doing anyways. I remember a few years back when it was mentioned that stihl was having a pin bearing failure problem with either the 441 or 461. Maybe it was misinformation...I don't know.

 

[ARPILOT]

Since there was considerable debate in another thread, the suggestion was made to start a new thread.

So here we go. I have heard the purpose of this saddle is to deflect fuel up into the piston to aid in cooling the piston. My understanding is that the method used to meet emissions in this model saw generated additional heat.

Any information to confirm, deny, or reflect any other purpose is appreciated.

Happy New Year everyone!

I have heard the same as you Mike, creates a vortex for the fuel to be carried,
Happy New Years

 

[maulhead]

In another thread it was referred to as a bridge.

Bridge;

noun
noun: bridge; plural noun: bridges
1.
a structure carrying a road, path, railroad, or canal across a river, ravine, road, railroad, or other obstacle.

---------

Now in this thread it's being called a saddle.

Saddle;

noun
noun: saddle; plural noun: saddles
1.
a seat fastened on the back of a horse or other animal for riding, typically made of leather and raised at the front and rear.

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I'm so confused right now.....

 

[MustangMike]

I guess it doesn't take much ....

How about we stick with "dohicky", that was likely my best description!

Hey, I even posted a pic for folks like you! (refer to post #1)

 

[paragonbuilder]

In another thread it was referred to as a bridge.

Bridge;

noun
noun: bridge; plural noun: bridges
1.
a structure carrying a road, path, railroad, or canal across a river, ravine, road, railroad, or other obstacle.

---------

Now in this thread it's being called a saddle.

Saddle;

noun
noun: saddle; plural noun: saddles
1.
a seat fastened on the back of a horse or other animal for riding, typically made of leather and raised at the front and rear.

---------------

I'm so confused right now.....

Lol

 

[MustangMike]

Flange it is, learn something every day ... Thanks Fred!

 

[MustangMike]

In another thread it was referred to as a bridge.

Bridge;

noun
noun: bridge; plural noun: bridges
1.
a structure carrying a road, path, railroad, or canal across a river, ravine, road, railroad, or other obstacle.

---------

Now in this thread it's being called a saddle.

Saddle;

noun
noun: saddle; plural noun: saddles
1.
a seat fastened on the back of a horse or other animal for riding, typically made of leather and raised at the front and rear.

---------------

I'm so confused right now.....

It all depends on if you walk across it, or ride on it. If you ride on it while it it running, please call 1-800-THERAPY 4 ME!

 

[paragonbuilder]

Flange it is, learn something every day ... Thanks Fred!

So stihl’s choice if the word flange is interesting.
From Wikipedia
“A flange is an external or internal ridge, or rim (lip), for strength, as the flange of an iron beam such as an I-beam or a T-beam; or for attachment to another object, as the flange on the end of a pipe, steam cylinder, etc., or on the lens mount of a camera; or for a flange of a rail car or tram wheel. Thus flanged wheels are wheels with a flange on one side to keep the wheels from running off the rails. The term "flange" is also used for a kind of tool used to form flanges. Pipes with flanges can be assembled and disassembled easily.”

 

[paragonbuilder]

I’ve been thinking on this delayed stratification, ie: back stuffing of the transfer tunnels with exhaust. The way I see it working, and I may be wrong, I don’t see it adding heat to the piston, or not enough to matter, it would be heating the casting around the tunnels, which is dissipating the heat to the cooling fins, the rings on the piston would keep the heat away from the piston.
Thoughts?

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

I guess we could call it a conduit strap.

 

[paragonbuilder]

I guess we could call it a conduit strap.

Could work [emoji848]

 

[Moparmyway]

I’ve been thinking on this delayed stratification, ie: back stuffing of the transfer tunnels with exhaust. The way I see it working, and I may be wrong, I don’t see it adding heat to the piston, or not enough to matter, it would be heating the casting around the tunnels, which is dissipating the heat to the cooling fins, the rings on the piston would keep the heat away from the piston.
Thoughts?

I’m pretty sure that on a stock saw, the back stuffing of the transferrs tunnels with exhaust (delayed stratification) only happens because of a restricted exhaust.

Once the exhaust is freed-up, like in a muffler modded or ported saw, delayed stratification won’t happen anymore

 

[paragonbuilder]

I’m pretty sure that on a stock saw, the back stuffing of the transferrs tunnels with exhaust (delayed stratification) only happens because of a restricted exhaust.

Once the exhaust is freed-up, like in a muffler modded or ported saw, delayed stratification won’t happen anymore

If this is true than a stock 460 would have the same issue, correct?


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[MustangMike]

I agree with Kevin's statement, which is why I open the muff + remove limiters on all of them.

Dan, I don't think it is quite the same. I'm not sophisticated enough to explain the effect of those long transfers, but they do change things, and even if the exhaust just hiccups (does not back flow), it will reduce the amount of heat escaping and make everything hotter.

Just like using 50:1, there is a fine balance between complying with the EPA and burning up your saw! It may work under ideal conditions, but ...

 

[Moparmyway]

If this is true than a stock 460 would have the same issue, correct?


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I have seen some stock saws back stuff their transferrs, without the long transferr tunnels. Every one of them had a restricted muffler

 

[Marshy]

I wonder if it acts like a crank scraper and windage tray.

 

[Keith Gandy]

I have seen some stock saws back stuff their transferrs, without the long transferr tunnels. Every one of them had a restricted muffler

Did thoso paticular saws behave any differently with in cut rpm?