Light switch wiring question

[merc_man]

Put a new light in today after work and when i pulled old light off ther was a big bundle of all black wires probly 4. Then a bundle of white that had three togeather which went to the white wire on light then another separate white wire that went to the black on light. Whats with all the wires and why would one lone white wire go to the black.

Oh and with the switch off the bundle of 3 wires were still hot. And yes i found that out the crapy way lol.

Why would white wires be hot with switch off.

House is probly from the 70s ish.


Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk

 

[S Sidwell]

Three way switch?

Steve, Samsung On5 using Tapatalk

 

[S Sidwell]

A lot of times they would get the electrical outlet power at the lights, some would send power from the outlets to the lights, then run a white wire to the switch then back to the light. Other side of light would stay hot.

Steve, Samsung On5 using Tapatalk

 

[merc_man]

Nope just a regular switch.

Thers also a switch in kitchen that i would think is for the ceiling fan. Dont do anything when flip it. I tried hooking up like you would a normal switch and it just kicked the breaker so just bipassed it how it was befor.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk

 

[merc_man]

A lot of times they would get the electrical outlet power at the lights, some would send power from the outlets to the lights, then run a white wire to the switch then back to the light. Other side of light would stay hot.

Steve, Samsung On5 using Tapatalk

That must not be up to todays code ?

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk

 

[S Sidwell]

Nope, was then but not now.

Steve, Samsung On5 using Tapatalk

 

[srcarr52]

The lone white is probably the return from the wall switch. The black bundle is the hot junction, one of which carries power down to the switch then power returns on the white. The white bundle is the neutral junction for the rest of the light fixtures which a daisy chained off this box.

Believe it or not... pretty common and probably up to code.

The bundle of blacks will always be hot if the breaker is on. The whites will have power if any of their circuits are closed. For instance the next light in the run is on.

 

[S Sidwell]

Depends on what state you live in if it's up to code or not though

Steve, Samsung On5 using Tapatalk

 

[S Sidwell]

Used to be able to run a ground fault Outlet off of a junction like that, now it has to be a dedicated circuit

Steve, Samsung On5 using Tapatalk

 

[paragonbuilder]

Put a new light in today after work and when i pulled old light off ther was a big bundle of all black wires probly 4. Then a bundle of white that had three togeather which went to the white wire on light then another separate white wire that went to the black on light. Whats with all the wires and why would one lone white wire go to the black.

Oh and with the switch off the bundle of 3 wires were still hot. And yes i found that out the crapy way lol.

Why would white wires be hot with switch off.

House is probly from the 70s ish.


Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk

The lone white is probably the return from the wall switch. The black bundle is the hot junction, one of which carries power down to the switch then power returns on the white. The white bundle is the neutral junction for the rest of the light fixtures which a daisy chained off this box.

Believe it or not... pretty common and probably up to code.

The bundle of blacks will always be hot if the breaker is on. The whites will have power if any of their circuits are closed. For instance the next light in the run is on.

So Shawn has this mostly correct. If it’s wired correctly, which from your description it sounds like it is.
The whites should never have “power”, they are the grounded conductor, and should have no potential.

I’m guessing when you got shocked the neutral splice was broken open. This is what I’m sure Shawn was referring to. If the splice is intact, and you got shocked, either they are in fact fed from a hot leg, or you have a ground fault somewhere and are feeling the potential there.
If things are good what happens when the splice is broken, is you become the path for the other “closed” circuits to get home.
More people get shocked or killed from breaking neutral splices than anything else thinking they are safe.
You really should be killing the circuit before working on it. Especially if you are unsure of what’s going on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[paragonbuilder]

Here is an example


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where the 2 red circles are you will read 120v if the neutral is broken there. And you will get one hell of a rapp!
It’s the same as touching hot and neutral even though they are both white...

 

[merc_man]

So Shawn has this mostly correct. If it’s wired correctly, which from your description it sounds like it is.
The whites should never have “power”, they are the grounded conductor, and should have no potential.

I’m guessing when you got shocked the neutral splice was broken open. This is what I’m sure Shawn was referring to. If the splice is intact, and you got shocked, either they are in fact fed from a hot leg, or you have a ground fault somewhere and are feeling the potential there.
If things are good what happens when the splice is broken, is you become the path for the other “closed” circuits to get home.
More people get shocked or killed from breaking neutral splices than anything else thinking they are safe.
You really should be killing the circuit before working on it. Especially if you are unsure of what’s going on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are corect. I should have killed the power first. I normally would have and this is a reminder to do it from now on.

On the other hand it made me forget about my ciatica pain for a few seconds.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk

 

[paragonbuilder]

You are corect. I should have killed the power first. I normally would have and this is a reminder to do it from now on.

On the other hand it made me forget about my ciatica pain for a few seconds.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk

Lol
When I get hit, it seems either give me a headache, or take it away... [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[T.Roller]

Your last 3 sentences are the most important. Unless it's just not possible at all I will always kill a circuit before working on it. No circuit in your house is critical enough to take a chance by working on it hot. 120v will kill you.

 

[paragonbuilder]

Your last 3 sentences are the most important. Unless it's just not possible at all I will always kill a circuit before working on it. No circuit in your house is critical enough to take a chance by working on it hot. 120v will kill you.

Yes. And by far is the voltage that kills more than any other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[paragonbuilder]

Thanks for showing up Dave, I was about to page you...[emoji57]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lightning Performance]

Everybody wants to be the conductor

 

[T.Roller]

Thanks for showing up Dave, I was about to page you...[emoji57]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I got your back Dan

 

[USMC615]

Simple hot/neutral theory here!

 

[paragonbuilder]

Simple hot/neutral theory here!

Simple for us that know it Jason!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk