Lathe Acquisition Woes....

[Nitroman]

Dang.

I want to buy a lathe to begin some hobby building, but am finding they can be really spendy. The cheap Chinese lathes are to be avoided according to all on PM. But there are some pretty good quality Chinese lathes that can be had from Grizzly. Price points are ~$5,000 up to $10,000.00.

From here we move into the Taiwanese lathes which the better quality are running ~$19,000 for a basic machine with no accessories. Kingston is very popular in this price range. Baileigh, JET, and others are not thought of as being in the top tier.

I am trying to find out where Summit and American Turnmaster are manufactured. Both are running in the area of $32,000.00 for a basic machine.

All run ~0.0003-7" runout at the spindle. This will be more once a chuck is mounted.

The price for an Eastern European (Bulgarian), lathe called Lion is $22,000.00 with taper but no other accessories.

I am waiting for a reply from Whacheon, they are a carbon copy of the Japanese Mori Seiki which is highly thought of, price is $38,000.00 for a basic machine. It would be nice to find they are as accurate as the Mori.

Now....a Weiler, a German machine tool manufacturer, and considered one of the finest is $62,000.00 basic and their runout is ZERO. At the end of a 24" bar in the spindle it measured 0.0003" (on a YT video). Yeah. You get what you pay for; want the best, gotta pony-up.

My last chance will be to buy an old, tired American manufactured lathe and have it remanufactured. Maybe an American Pacemaker, Monarch or Lodge & Shipley. Problem here is spindle hole. The older American lathes had tiny spindle holes! Grrrr!

Bummer.

Oh, these are all 16" x 60 or 80" machines.

Just received a "reply" from Whacheon USA. Whoever sent me the email didn't bother to say anything, just scanned and attached the specs for the 18x60" I was looking for and an inspection report. Runout is 0.00007". Yup, under a tenth. Dang. Taper is $3,900 and steadyrest another $1800, DRO $2000. $45k and $6000 for shipping.

Well, a fully tricked out Weiler with DRO, steady, taper, 4-jaw, 3-jaw, and a collet set-up is $92k delivered. I give up.

 

[thomas1]

You should keep your eyes open closer to home.

https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=909&acctid=7647

 

[Nitroman]

Would you believe it if I told you that lathe was in the Diesel Mechanics Section of Alaska Vocational Technical Center when I went there in March of 1979? It was worn out then, and even more so now. It would have to be shipped to the Lower 48, remanufactured and then shipped back up. Shipping is $1.00 per pound.

I have looked at Alaskaslist and Craigslist, saw one broke-down, whipped and put away wet Lodge & Shipley. Sad really.

 

[huskihl]

Many guys on here use something similar to a Grizzly 9x19. Or maybe even a 10x24.

It's just a saw

 

[mdavlee]

For saws a grizzly 4000 or other color one works fine. I bet mine has turned 500 cylinders in its life. Terry owned it from mid 2000s. It's .001-.0005" run out

 

[Nitroman]

I have looked very closely at them. The only one I would buy would be the 16x40 "gunsmith" lathe. But it's 3ph so I need to drop another $2k for a phase converter right off the bat.

I want a lathe with at least a 60" bed so I can chamber out of the headstock and cut tapers on long barrels. I still have all this summer to stash money away. Mid August is my cut-off date. Last day to have an item to ship in Seattle is Sept 5. If it isn't there then, I have to wait until next year unless I want to airfreight it.

 

[thomas1]

I have looked very closely at them. The only one I would buy would be the 16x40 "gunsmith" lathe. But it's 3ph so I need to drop another $2k for a phase converter right off the bat.

I want a lathe with at least a 60" bed so I can chamber out of the headstock and cut tapers on long barrels. I still have all this summer to stash money away. Mid August is my cut-off date. Last day to have an item to ship in Seattle is Sept 5. If it isn't there then, I have to wait until next year unless I want to airfreight it.

So, you're going to be chambering and tapering 50" barrels yourself? Might as well save up for your own barrel making machine and rifling machine, too, because 50" barrel blanks ain't exactly all that common.

And if you know you're doing all your work between centers why are you crying about small spindle bores?

I'm guessing you want to taper your own barrels because it'll be "cheaper" and you'll be able to some magical taper that a manufacturer's standard 15 profiles won't be close enough to?

Plus you want to drop $40k on a lathe but want to be able to plug it into a 120v outlet so you don't have to spend money on a phase converter? Lol, just make sure you don't include any tooling in your budget, that'll save you all kinds of money.

 

[angelo c]

Heck I was complaining about a $2400 south bend....sheesh I'll just shut up now. (No need to worry about what I'm going to do with it either)...

 

[srcarr52]

I have looked very closely at them. The only one I would buy would be the 16x40 "gunsmith" lathe. But it's 3ph so I need to drop another $2k for a phase converter right off the bat.

I want a lathe with at least a 60" bed so I can chamber out of the headstock and cut tapers on long barrels. I still have all this summer to stash money away. Mid August is my cut-off date. Last day to have an item to ship in Seattle is Sept 5. If it isn't there then, I have to wait until next year unless I want to airfreight it.

Even on a 60" bed lathe the taper attachment is usually around 20" long.

 

[Nitroman]

So, you're going to be chambering and tapering 50" barrels yourself? Might as well save up for your own barrel making machine and rifling machine, too, because 50" barrel blanks ain't exactly all that common.

And if you know you're doing all your work between centers why are you crying about small spindle bores?

I'm guessing you want to taper your own barrels because it'll be "cheaper" and you'll be able to some magical taper that a manufacturer's standard 15 profiles won't be close enough to?

Plus you want to drop $40k on a lathe but want to be able to plug it into a 120v outlet so you don't have to spend money on a phase converter? Lol, just make sure you don't include any tooling in your budget, that'll save you all kinds of money.

Hmmm. The overall tone of your post is mildly snide. I wonder why? No, I won't be chambering barrels 50" long. Maybe up to 34"? Maybe I might feel like chambering a barrel or two through the headstock? Or some other work where a larger than 2" bore might be helpful.I had a rifle built by Greg Tannel. His Mazak has a 54" bed. He was able to make my barrel 31.5" due to the length of the bed. His recommendation, in his video, was to buy a lathe with as long a bed as you can afford. Obviously within reason. Reason: chambering between centers limits the length of a barrel. If someone wants a 36" barrel for a .408 Chey-Tac, it will take a long lathe bed.

I might want to taper barrel because I might want too. No "magical" taper involved, but then, I won't ever know if I cannot taper my own barrels yes?

I don't want to drop $8500 on a lathe then drop $2000 on a phase convertor for it. 1/4 cost of the lathe.

I still am trying to understand your snide tone. If I were on AS I would understand. Maybe you are on the wrong website?

 

[thomas1]

I think you're all over the place. In your first post you go from looking at $5k chinese lathes to $90k machines. Complaining about a small spindle bore, but claiming you know you want to do all your chambering between centers. Once your lathe gets to big chambering in the headstock is basically out because the headstock is too wide. Judging from your posts I'm guessing you have never chambered a barrel in either manner, is that correct?

You mention sizing the lathe within reason, how reasonable is it to know that you want to be able to work on stock that is <2.5x40" and then start pricing out lathes that are 16x80"?

Narrow down want you want and go from there.

 

[Nitroman]

Actually it was looking at the price points for lathes being relatively of the same size:
~$10k
~$20k
~$40k
~$60k
And the disappointment of the challenge of possibly finding a lathe that would be rebuildable, with a 2" or better spindle bore, that wasn't too big. Too big being the mass of the lathe. I pay $1 per pound shipping. So getting one rebuilt, while a possibility, become less a probability due to the significant mass. A nice Monarch or Lodge can run 8000 to 12000 pounds, or dollars to ship. The point being the price points narrow rapidly towards the top tier in this case.

I can spend $5k on a decent used lathe and drop another $20-$25k to have it rebuilt, but then I am in the range of the Weiler when you add shipping.

So you see, I would rather have a really cool Pacemaker with the threading return option all remanufactured, but at this price-point, I could make a telephone call and 30 days later have a brand-new lathe. Not to mention the headstock is so huge the bed would be around 78". At least this is what I have seen in the 14" to 18" Pacemakers. And the mass here would be close to 15000 pounds, or dollars to ship.

You are correct in your advice of what I want and narrowing it down. I have waited 30 years and being so close is kind of frustrating in its' own right.

Oh well, the frustration of having to save for another year rears its' ugly head.

 

[Bill G]

What diameter bore are you looking for

 

[Nitroman]

I was looking for anything over 2".