Inside the MS462C

[andyshine77]

Exactly! I can confirm a 461 has long transfer ports.

Have you measured the cc of the transfer tunnels? This would reduce transfer pressure and vilocity, to regain the pressure something like a case stuffer or longer blow down would be needed to up case pressure.[emoji6] And longer transfers may help low end torque, but hinder top end. Much like long intake runners.

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[nohoff]

They have much more volume.
The transfers on the ms 461 start in the crankcase , and are very wide till they split up to the left and right side.

 

[andyshine77]

They have much more volume.
The transfers on the ms 461 start in the crankcase , and are very wide till they split up to the left and right side.

If so, reducing case valume was a must.

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[nohoff]

I loked at some pictures.
The MS 461 transfers arent that wide i was thinking about the MS 661.
But the MS 661 is just the same in a bit bigger.

 

[big t double]

I'm actually drinking a beer with my stihl dealer I type this and he never heard of it either.

When are we going to drink a beer? I don't know *s-word about what y'all are talking about...but I like drinkin beers.

 

[Big_6]

No Stihls available for sale today.

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[andyshine77]

All they did is put the transfer entry on the clutch side so it has a longer path to get to the chamber.

You got it.[emoji106]

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[andyshine77]

How so? A stratified charge, and delayed stratified scavenging don't make more heat?

Doesn't "delayed stratified scavenging" mean it tries to stuff some of the exhaust back into the transfer before the next cycle? Seems like it would create more heat to me. Please tell me where I'm wrong here.

It's just delaying the charge a slight bit, to prevent some unburned hydrocarbons from exiting the exhaust. Strato saws use a separate fresh air buffer. Because the fresh air buffer does not have any fuel, it has no evaporating effect or oil for lubrication. And also causes more drastic temperature fluctuations in different areas. The end result is similar, the method is completely different.

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[blsnelling]

How so? A stratified charge, and delayed stratified scavenging don't make more heat?

Doesn't "delayed stratified scavenging" mean it tries to stuff some of the exhaust back into the transfer before the next cycle? Seems like it would create more heat to me. Please tell me where I'm wrong here.

That is pure speculation. I'm not trying to just prove you wrong. This is how misinformation magically becomes "fact" with no evidence to support it. That does none of us any good. Bad information is worse than no information.

Those technical informations state the upper transfers open before the exhaust opens.
So its a cmobination of longer transfer channel and some other timings.
Can anyone confirm that?
I dont have a MS 461/661 here right now.

The port timing in a 461 is no different than any other traditionally ported chainsaw engine. The ONLY thing different in it's port layout is the longer, front fed transers. Nothing more.

 

[Stihl working Hard]

Whud he say ?

LMFAO was wondering the same thing

 

[Keith Gandy]

You mean the purpose of the bridge? I had answered it. Randy stated the he was told it deflects the fuel to cool the piston. Must of been a reason they decided to do that, don't ya think?

Yes because the design allows more heat to stay in on the topend on the exhaust stroke than a traditional transfer system so a cooling effect on the underside acting as a heat sink helped. JMO

 

[MustangMike]

That is pure speculation. I'm not trying to just prove you wrong.

That cuts both ways Brad, I'm quoting a document, you are spewing pure speculation based on what you think happens.

So, explain the purpose of the Bridge then? Why this change to the 461 that is not in a 460???

 

[andyshine77]

Yes because the design allows more heat to stay in on the topend on the exhaust stroke than a traditional transfer system so a cooling effect on the underside acting as a heat sink helped. JMO

And the transfers going under and around the exhaust, so this may slightly preheat the charge. Again this helps volumetric efficiency and aid cold engine behavior IMHO. This has been debated before and was one of my half brained ideas previously. Excessive heat? No I don't see that, the charge isn't retarded or heated that drastically IMHO.

This design is simple and clever at the same time, far better than a Strato design, for a number of reasons.

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[andyshine77]

That cuts both ways Brad, I'm quoting a document, you are spewing pure speculation based on what you think happens.

So, explain the purpose of the Bridge then? Why this change to the 461 that is not in a 460???

I believe we've all shared our ideas. I have seen no documents that prove or disprove anything, other than marketing lingo IMHO.

Take care, and have a happy soon to be new year.

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[MustangMike]

Happy New Year to you also, and everyone else on the site.

We may not have resolved it, but a good debate and sharing of ideas is always good and a healthy exercise.

 

[paragonbuilder]

That is pure speculation. I'm not trying to just prove you wrong. This is how misinformation magically becomes "fact" with no evidence to support it. That does none of us any good. Bad information is worse than no information.

I’ve both been victim to these internet facts, and a party to them in the past.
None of us are perfect, and even what we have “proven” for ourselves, may be shown different by others, never mind things we just repeat, no matter how much we trust those it came from.
I’ve learned that things stated as fact here are to be questioned for myself. But for the benefit of those that come here seeking advice and see us as experts...[emoji33] I see the use of terms such as,
It appears,
I believe,
It seems,
In my opinion,
I think,
Should be used much more often by us all, including myself.

As Mustang Mike stated, a good debate is good for us all and makes us think how to prove the other wrong. It deepens our understanding and if we can keep an open mind on things, many times we will find that our own thinking may have been flawed.
It’s great to have conviction in our thoughts, but it’s better to know that what we believe today may very well be proved wrong tomorrow and be open to that truth. This allows us to grow, not only individually, but also as a collective knowledge base here on the forum.
It has been great to see opinions expressed here without any butthurt happening!
This is progress for our forum!!

 

[RI Chevy]

Well stated Dan.
It would be nice to have some more input from the reputable builders on here that have built and repaired some of these saws.
@Mastermind
@tree monkey

 

[paragonbuilder]

Well stated Dan.
It would be nice to have some more input from the reputable builders on here that have built and repaired some of these saws.
@Mastermind
@tree monkey

Perhaps a separate thread on the matter Jeff, so that it is easy to find and not stuck in the middle of this 462 thread.

 

[RI Chevy]

Good point. I forgot what thread I was in. Lol

 

[MustangMike]

Perhaps a separate thread on the matter Jeff, so that it is easy to find and not stuck in the middle of this 462 thread.

DONE!!!