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Hackberry vs Red Oak

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Almost every Cherry we cut around here has ants working in it.
Why don't you like it in the cattle pastures?

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It can kill the cow if the get to eating the leaves.

It's not a problem unless the leaves wilt. Like a summer storm blows a limb out, or a tree down.....

Then, after the leaves wilt it becomes very toxic to cattle or horses.

At issue here is what is termed cyanogenesis, or the potential to produce cyanogenic or hydrogen cyanide (HCN) compounds, sometimes more commonly called prussic acid. Many plants in the Rosaceae (rose) family and specifically in the prunus genus, of which the wild black cherry is a member, have this potential. HCN is not found in the normal plant tissue state. It is only formed when glycosides in the leaves are combined with hydrolytic enzymes in the leaves. These two materials are stored in separate sites in the plant and so HCN is formed only when the barrier separating these sites are broken. This occurs when plant tissue is damaged, through such mechanisms as chewing, frost, or damage to the tree that causes leaves to wilt.

Ruminant animals are very susceptible to poisoning from HCN. Research indicates that the lethal dose for sheep/cattle can be as little as 1 to 4 grams of plant material per kilogram of body weight, or since there are 2.2 pounds per kilogram, 0.46 grams to 1.82 grams of plant material per pound of body weight. To give this some perspective, there are 454 grams in one pound, so this is a small amount. For a 1200 lb cow, consuming 1.2 to 4.8 pounds of wilted black cherry leaves could be a lethal dose.

Signs of HCN toxicity can occur quickly, as soon as 15 to 20 minutes after ingestion. Typical signs are distress, followed by severe weakness to the point where the animal is barely able to stand, or even to the point of collapsing. Animals will exhibit rapid and labored respiration. If they have collapsed there may be kicking/paddling of the legs and/or kicking associated with seizure like symptoms. This entire sequence can progress in 10 to 15 minutes with a high dosage of HCN and up to 45 to 60 minutes with a lower dose. References state that if the animal does not die in the first hour, there is a good chance for recovery.

Source: Rory Lewandowski, Extension Educator, Athens County, Buckeye Hills EERA, Ohio State University Extension
 

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It's not a problem unless the leaves wilt. Like a summer storm blows a limb out, or a tree down.....

Then, after the leaves wilt it becomes very toxic to cattle or horses.

At issue here is what is termed cyanogenesis, or the potential to produce cyanogenic or hydrogen cyanide (HCN) compounds, sometimes more commonly called prussic acid. Many plants in the Rosaceae (rose) family and specifically in the prunus genus, of which the wild black cherry is a member, have this potential. HCN is not found in the normal plant tissue state. It is only formed when glycosides in the leaves are combined with hydrolytic enzymes in the leaves. These two materials are stored in separate sites in the plant and so HCN is formed only when the barrier separating these sites are broken. This occurs when plant tissue is damaged, through such mechanisms as chewing, frost, or damage to the tree that causes leaves to wilt.

Ruminant animals are very susceptible to poisoning from HCN. Research indicates that the lethal dose for sheep/cattle can be as little as 1 to 4 grams of plant material per kilogram of body weight, or since there are 2.2 pounds per kilogram, 0.46 grams to 1.82 grams of plant material per pound of body weight. To give this some perspective, there are 454 grams in one pound, so this is a small amount. For a 1200 lb cow, consuming 1.2 to 4.8 pounds of wilted black cherry leaves could be a lethal dose.

Signs of HCN toxicity can occur quickly, as soon as 15 to 20 minutes after ingestion. Typical signs are distress, followed by severe weakness to the point where the animal is barely able to stand, or even to the point of collapsing. Animals will exhibit rapid and labored respiration. If they have collapsed there may be kicking/paddling of the legs and/or kicking associated with seizure like symptoms. This entire sequence can progress in 10 to 15 minutes with a high dosage of HCN and up to 45 to 60 minutes with a lower dose. References state that if the animal does not die in the first hour, there is a good chance for recovery.

Source: Rory Lewandowski, Extension Educator, Athens County, Buckeye Hills EERA, Ohio State University Extension

Kill them all!
 

ajschainsaws

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It's not a problem unless the leaves wilt. Like a summer storm blows a limb out, or a tree down.....

Then, after the leaves wilt it becomes very toxic to cattle or horses.

At issue here is what is termed cyanogenesis, or the potential to produce cyanogenic or hydrogen cyanide (HCN) compounds, sometimes more commonly called prussic acid. Many plants in the Rosaceae (rose) family and specifically in the prunus genus, of which the wild black cherry is a member, have this potential. HCN is not found in the normal plant tissue state. It is only formed when glycosides in the leaves are combined with hydrolytic enzymes in the leaves. These two materials are stored in separate sites in the plant and so HCN is formed only when the barrier separating these sites are broken. This occurs when plant tissue is damaged, through such mechanisms as chewing, frost, or damage to the tree that causes leaves to wilt.

Ruminant animals are very susceptible to poisoning from HCN. Research indicates that the lethal dose for sheep/cattle can be as little as 1 to 4 grams of plant material per kilogram of body weight, or since there are 2.2 pounds per kilogram, 0.46 grams to 1.82 grams of plant material per pound of body weight. To give this some perspective, there are 454 grams in one pound, so this is a small amount. For a 1200 lb cow, consuming 1.2 to 4.8 pounds of wilted black cherry leaves could be a lethal dose.

Signs of HCN toxicity can occur quickly, as soon as 15 to 20 minutes after ingestion. Typical signs are distress, followed by severe weakness to the point where the animal is barely able to stand, or even to the point of collapsing. Animals will exhibit rapid and labored respiration. If they have collapsed there may be kicking/paddling of the legs and/or kicking associated with seizure like symptoms. This entire sequence can progress in 10 to 15 minutes with a high dosage of HCN and up to 45 to 60 minutes with a lower dose. References state that if the animal does not die in the first hour, there is a good chance for recovery.

Source: Rory Lewandowski, Extension Educator, Athens County, Buckeye Hills EERA, Ohio State University Extension

Good information you learn something everyday didn’t know about wild cherry

We get problems with sycamore horses get sick with that

A lot of people put the pigs out when the beech nuts are falling so that time of year a good time too rent pigs ha ha
 

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It's not a problem unless the leaves wilt. Like a summer storm blows a limb out, or a tree down.....

Then, after the leaves wilt it becomes very toxic to cattle or horses.

At issue here is what is termed cyanogenesis, or the potential to produce cyanogenic or hydrogen cyanide (HCN) compounds, sometimes more commonly called prussic acid. Many plants in the Rosaceae (rose) family and specifically in the prunus genus, of which the wild black cherry is a member, have this potential. HCN is not found in the normal plant tissue state. It is only formed when glycosides in the leaves are combined with hydrolytic enzymes in the leaves. These two materials are stored in separate sites in the plant and so HCN is formed only when the barrier separating these sites are broken. This occurs when plant tissue is damaged, through such mechanisms as chewing, frost, or damage to the tree that causes leaves to wilt.

Ruminant animals are very susceptible to poisoning from HCN. Research indicates that the lethal dose for sheep/cattle can be as little as 1 to 4 grams of plant material per kilogram of body weight, or since there are 2.2 pounds per kilogram, 0.46 grams to 1.82 grams of plant material per pound of body weight. To give this some perspective, there are 454 grams in one pound, so this is a small amount. For a 1200 lb cow, consuming 1.2 to 4.8 pounds of wilted black cherry leaves could be a lethal dose.

Signs of HCN toxicity can occur quickly, as soon as 15 to 20 minutes after ingestion. Typical signs are distress, followed by severe weakness to the point where the animal is barely able to stand, or even to the point of collapsing. Animals will exhibit rapid and labored respiration. If they have collapsed there may be kicking/paddling of the legs and/or kicking associated with seizure like symptoms. This entire sequence can progress in 10 to 15 minutes with a high dosage of HCN and up to 45 to 60 minutes with a lower dose. References state that if the animal does not die in the first hour, there is a good chance for recovery.

Source: Rory Lewandowski, Extension Educator, Athens County, Buckeye Hills EERA, Ohio State University Extension

tl;dr
 

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I hear you on that. I have some woods here that brick up too. Pain in the arse.
Maybe burn pit stuff?
 

Ronaldo

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When I burn it, the ash is a brick and it won’t shake down through my grates. Have to use a poker to break it up. Not worth my time.
I've not experienced the ash getting hard. Probably 90 percent of what I burn is American Elm and Red (slippery) Elm. Burn in a freestanding Pacific Energy stove. It does tend to coal up in extreme cold when I'm feeding it hard and often, but I love Elm.

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Hackberry splits fine after you let it dry in the round for a few months or until it checks up. So does most elm for that matter. Occasionally you run into spiral grain elm which will stall out a 24-ton splitter. I managed to do that this year with a truckload. It never checks up and that's how you can tell that you have some good rounds for a bonfire.

Heat content of hackberry is just under mulberry, so yes, it does burn hot and long. It has unbelievably rough bark, so the deer use it as a scratching post, and it will tear your gloves up rather quickly.
 

CrystalRiver1

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Hackberry splits fine after you let it dry in the round for a few months or until it checks up. So does most elm for that matter. Occasionally you run into spiral grain elm which will stall out a 24-ton splitter. I managed to do that this year with a truckload. It never checks up and that's how you can tell that you have some good rounds for a bonfire.

Heat content of hackberry is just under mulberry, so yes, it does burn hot and long. It has unbelievably rough bark, so the deer use it as a scratching post, and it will tear your gloves up rather quickly.

Hackberry BTU's just under Mulberry??
YIKES!!
Never seen this on any of the BTU Charts...:rolleyes:
 

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Hackberry BTU's just under Mulberry??
YIKES!!
Never seen this on any of the BTU Charts...:rolleyes:
Mulberry -- 24 MBTU /cord.
Hackberry -- 20 MBTU/cord

There are several charts out there. I try to average them. I've seen mulberry as high as 25 MBTU/cord and hackberry as high as 22 MBTU/cord. Regardless, hackberry throws fewer sparks and burns more like elm. Mulberry works great in my stove and I never turn it down. Both dry faster than red oak.
 

CrystalRiver1

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Mulberry -- 24 MBTU /cord.
Hackberry -- 20 MBTU/cord

There are several charts out there. I try to average them. I've seen mulberry as high as 25 MBTU/cord and hackberry as high as 22 MBTU/cord. Regardless, hackberry throws fewer sparks and burns more like elm. Mulberry works great in my stove and I never turn it down. Both dry faster than red oak.

Yep...I concur...averaging them out does seem the most sensible as well as practical. There are a heap of charts that run the gamut both ways.
I'm not turning down too much of either of them.
We're overrun with Red Oak in my region.
Just don't see the Mulberry like I use to when I was younger...of course I was dodging anything that remotely resembled manual labor also! :couch:
 
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