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Given a locked up 12mm 044

foragefarmer

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Feels good. It has stout compression, I can see the well used pull cord failing soon. The jug is basically stock. I just cleaned up the casting flaws and smoothed the ports and port matched the muffler and modded it. It needs a few tanks of gas run through it for sure. It was needing a carb tweak every so often through this first tank. Some of that maybe from sitting for 2-3 years. It seems to have a little more grunt than an 044 but that could be confirmation bias.

I had to rob a bunch of fasteners off the 10mm saw to get this one together. I have a stock of Stihl fasteners somewhere. God knows where. Really want the seals to come in.
 

MustangMike

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Yea, they run pretty darn good for a $20 jug! Glad you went with the meteor, nice combo.

If you ever want to play with it a bit, there are likely some nice gains to be had from lowering the intake a bit.

My notes reflect an intake of 72 w/o a base gasket, and I moved it to 80. She runs very nice. (this is with a used OEM 460 piston).
 

MustangMike

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You can move the intake with a half round file, but also, HF has their little grinding tool on sale for 6.99!!! Buy some decent attachments for it and they become quite useful. They are very small, but I use a channel lock to tighten the stuff down, or it will move.

(Although I usually do the intake with had files)

In summary, very useful grinder for the price. (Also for muff mods, plastic grinding, etc) That and their heat gun have been invaluable to me when working on the saws.
 

Scotty Overkill

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Great thread, and a great build.

@blacksmith and I just got done putting his 044 back together. He bought a parts crankcase and crank off of eBay that was supposed to be 12mm, but turned out to be a 10mm.....

So we had to modify the 10mm case to accept his 12mm crank, and had to repair his 12mm crank (it had damage at the E-clip area), but it all came together nicely.

We had to "deepen" up the center of crankcase, that was the only difference I could find in regards to the 10mm-12mm cases. The rod of the 12mm crank is stouter, during its down stroke and upstroke, it would foul into the case. I simply machined out a small amount in that path to match the factory casting of the 12mm case.

It has an OEM jug and piston, I dropped and slightly squared off the bottom of the intake side, and slightly widened the exhaust side, match ported the muffler, DP'd the muffer (baffle removed), we didn't remove the base gasket yet, we were both sick of working on it that day and wanted to get it together to see if it was even going to work in the modified case......

The saw runs excellent, very responsive and pulls hard.
 

smokey7

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Very nice build. So you are running a warhawk cylinder with a meteor piston or with the supplied piston?
@MustangMike what was differend or wrong about your new oem replacement piston? Was it a 044 piston if so 10mm or 12mm or was it a 046/460 piston? Also how many oem and china 044-440 046-460 saws do you have? It seems you had twins and triplicate build threads if im remember right.
 

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For my 10 mm 044 the new piston did not have wings like the original (less stable, IMO), and the skirt height was a slight bit less. Since I really like how this saw runs, I did not want to change it with anything that looked different. I still have it as a backup. (I believe the original is a KS and the replacement is a Mahle).

I got lots, this is may favorite saw size, and I've been playing with Asian and OEM parts saws. In addition to the above 044 this is what I currently have running:

A 12 mm 044 straight fin P+C on an Asian 440
2 - Asian 440s with New West BB cylinders (both ported by me, one a lot more than the other)
Asian 440 Hybrid with HL Supply Doorbuster 460 cylinder and OEM piston (some port work)
Dr Al MOFO Hybrid (Asian saw with OEM 12mm 044 crank, OEM Hemi 460 cyl, modified Husky 272 piston)
CFB Hybrid with 046 D chamber cylinder.

Also have my MOFO 046 D chamber 460.
MS 460 Hemi (no port work, but with base gasket delete).
MS 460 with HL Supply Door Buster 460 jug and Meteor piston. (a little port work)

So I currently have 10 runners in this size. I'll start moving them along when I'm done playing with porting, etc. I recently sold a OEM 440 (that I reclaimed from the dead) to a local tree guy, and sent my 046-D saw to my Grand Nephew.

The MOFO 460 and Hybrid, and CFB Hybrid have fully machined cylinders and are outstanding performers.

The strongest Hybrid I did was the one with the HL Supply jug (they come with good ports), but when I opened up the exhaust and further improved the transfers on one of the New West BB I think I created one that is a little stronger. I'm going by seat of the paints, I will have to do some cuts in the same wood with the same B+C.

Hope this makes it easier to keep track of my comments! I've got parts on hand for 3 or 4 more Hybrid Builds in the spring. I think I will just emulate the most recent one I built.
 

foragefarmer

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Great thread, and a great build.

@blacksmith and I just got done putting his 044 back together. He bought a parts crankcase and crank off of eBay that was supposed to be 12mm, but turned out to be a 10mm.....

So we had to modify the 10mm case to accept his 12mm crank, and had to repair his 12mm crank (it had damage at the E-clip area), but it all came together nicely.

We had to "deepen" up the center of crankcase, that was the only difference I could find in regards to the 10mm-12mm cases. The rod of the 12mm crank is stouter, during its down stroke and upstroke, it would foul into the case. I simply machined out a small amount in that path to match the factory casting of the 12mm case.

It has an OEM jug and piston, I dropped and slightly squared off the bottom of the intake side, and slightly widened the exhaust side, match ported the muffler, DP'd the muffer (baffle removed), we didn't remove the base gasket yet, we were both sick of working on it that day and wanted to get it together to see if it was even going to work in the modified case......

The saw runs excellent, very responsive and pulls hard.

Thank You Sir.

Dang Scotty a bit on the Overkill side of things to get a saw up and running. :)

How is your Christmas present 461 running a couple/few years later?
 

foragefarmer

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Very nice build. So you are running a warhawk cylinder with a meteor piston or with the supplied piston?
@MustangMike what was differend or wrong about your new oem replacement piston? Was it a 044 piston if so 10mm or 12mm or was it a 046/460 piston? Also how many oem and china 044-440 046-460 saws do you have? It seems you had twins and triplicate build threads if im remember right.

I am running the supplied piston for the time being. I wanted to confirm the quality of my work before I put a spendy part in it. This thing is going to come apart more than once so the Meteor will go in at some point I am sure.

The thing I question the most about the supplied piston is the casting for the notch for the wrist pin clip. It is much larger than the OEM notch out or the Meteor notch. That plus the provided clips are a recipe for disaster as was shown by the failure that resulted in my getting this saw in the first place.
 

Scotty Overkill

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Thank You Sir.

Dang Scotty a bit on the Overkill side of things to get a saw up and running. :)

How is your Christmas present 461 running a couple/few years later?
She's still working like new, someday I'll get around to porting her and doing some mods, but she's still in great shape!
 

MustangMike

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I would put that Meteor piston in ASAP and let your cylinder start breaking in the rings (Meteor comes with Cabers). You will also have to make sure the Meteor does not change your squish or port timing #s. You risk ruining your cylinder with a garbage piston.

I did not like the lower struts on those pistons, or the windows (very small), and often the rings and clips are inferior. I would not run one. (Plus the problems you noted).
 

foragefarmer

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I have put some run time on the saw. Decided to pull it apart and look things over. Quite a bit of wear on the piston for just a couple tanks.

48EA8E26-344A-4161-A344-D0E2E30D419F.jpeg F455BC30-E22F-46CE-A1E6-9D1D61083026.jpeg


Decided to pop the Meteor piston in and see what happens with it.
 

foragefarmer

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While I would like to do a head to head video between my 3 044's. I just don't have time.

The Hybrid is on it's 4th tank of fuel with the Meteor piston installed and it has really, really woken up. I was noodling a big red oak that fell on one of my fences and I need to move the cows in there and it was ripping through the rounds. It really wanted to clog with noodles. Everyone needs one of these things.

I would like to pull the cylinder and take a look at piston wear. I have the feeling it is less than with the other piston.
 

MustangMike

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I would put that Meteor piston in ASAP and let your cylinder start breaking in the rings (Meteor comes with Cabers). You will also have to make sure the Meteor does not change your squish or port timing #s. You risk ruining your cylinder with a garbage piston.

I did not like the lower struts on those pistons, or the windows (very small), and often the rings and clips are inferior. I would not run one. (Plus the problems you noted).

So glad to hear, I thought you would like it set up that way! Those cheap jugs came with some nice ports! I was especially impressed with the transfers, which, IMO are the hardest thing for me to modify.

Hopefully it will hold up well for you. I know the plating on those jugs is not like OEM, but usually the weak link in a saw is either the piston skirt or rings wearing, and the Meteor w/Cabers should take care of that!

Enjoy that saw! Just run it, no need to check it! You should be good! (I was just running mine yesterday at my Daughter's house). :)
 

foragefarmer

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I don't think you understand what I was saying. I want to pull it down from a purely informational standpoint not due to some irrational concern. If there is less wear there is less friction between the piston and cylinder wall and lower parasitic loss of power.

I think the plating on the jug I used was pretty decent.
 

drf256

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So, did you use an HL 52mm 460 jug? I'm a bit confused, which is nothing new.

I worry about their plating, but the transfers on them are near OEM quality. The best I've ever seen in an AM.

The bigbore 52mm 044 jugs weren't so nice. Pretty sure Mustang has all of mine now.

The AM jugs have their place and an excellent price point. Once hours of modification are involved, I feel the cost of OEM, used or otherwise, is worth the expense.
 

MustangMike

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Once hours of modification are involved, I feel the cost of OEM, used or otherwise, is worth the expense.

Very valid point Al. I'm playing with the AM stuff cause I could not afford to play this much with OEM, and I am kinda curious as to how long it will hold up. I look at it as a good way to learn about porting. Can I build it a little stronger each time??? If I were trying to make money working on saws, I would not touch an AM saw (you can see why in my new thread), but for me they are a hobby and a challenge.

However, I think the durability of the bottom ends of the AM saws may be under estimated. Most of them seem to hold up quite well, but as I have stated previously, it is very important to flush the bearings clean as soon as you get them. They get shipped with lots of junk in them.

The porting of the HL 460 jugs was much better than the BBs, all the ports. Unfortunately, they seem to be NLA. However, I like the combustion chambers/squish bands better on the BBs, and I think the plating looks better (keep in mind I don't machine the jugs). I was able to improve the ports on one BB jug to make it run at least as good as the HL 460 Hybrid I built, and both run very respectably. I will not use the pistons that come with the HL 460 jugs, but I like and use the pistons and rings (and clips) that come with the BB kits.

Considering the difficulty in finding 440s and 460 jugs, IMO these aftermarket saws/kits/P+Cs have their place, and may hold up very well for someone who just cuts several cord of firewood a year.

I do have one of my BB creations in the hands of a Tree Pro, he knows what it is and he really likes the saw, and it will be kind of a test as to how well they hold up.
 

drf256

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Not trying to bash anyone. They are a great way of playing and experimenting for sure.

The plating on the meteor jugs exceeds OEM IMHO. But the transfers are awful and can't really be fully corrected. I spent roughly 3X the time I woulda spent on an OEM jug when I did my buildoff Saw. I know the new owner won't have any issues with worn out plating, that is for sure.
 

foragefarmer

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If you get given a saw; which didn't have much wrong with it, it spat a wrist pin clip and hung on it. You might as well have some fun with it and try to learn something. So a low cost hybrid build sounded good to me.

It was the $19 on sale 046/460 P&C from HLS.

The saw had a china big bore on it. Looked like a Farmertec. So I got to look at one of those and the transfers are not great since they just over bored a cylinder so the transfers are abbreviated.
 
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