Generator issue

[Crzybowhntr]

I picked up a supposed non running generator yesterday and managed to get it running by just ADDING gas to the tank!! Anywho, the genset will not produce power. Anyone ever try to excite the generator by using a corded drill?


Electric Drill Method

• Plug in an electric drill into the generator receptacle. (No @dall you can`t use a cordless drill LOL)
  
• If the drill is reversible, move the direction switch to the forward position.
• Start the generator.
• While depressing the trigger on the drill, spin the drill chuck in reverse direction. This will excite the field and the generator will now produce electricity. If spinning the chuck one direction does not work, try spinning the chuck in the other direction as you may have the reverse switch positioned backwards.

Use caution not to get your hand or other materials caught in the chuck. As soon as the field is exited, the generator will produce power and the drill will turn on.

The reason this works is because the electric motor in the drill will act as a small generator when spun backwards. The magnets in the drill's motor induce a voltage into the motor winding, which is fed back through the trigger cord and into the generator receptacle. From there it goes into the power winding of the stator. The voltage going through the power winding creates a magnetic field which is intensified due to the iron core of the stator lamination's. The rotor intersects this magnetic field as it is spun past the power winding, thus inducing a voltage in the rotor winding. Once current flow is present in the rotor winding the rotor has been flashed.

 

[Stackowood]

That's creative, but normally there is a specific DC voltage that you would use to excite the windings and it can vary by the design of the generator and manufacturer. Generators don't normally lose residual unless they sit for a really long time, so the output issue may be something else. Let us know how it goes! What brand is it?

 

[AVB]

One problem here. Most electric drills do not have permanent magnets; just an induction type motor. No magnetism, No electrical generation; unless, an electrical current is present from the generator in the first place. I tried this method several times and it has failed every time for me. I instead use a 12 vdc lawn mower battery and do the flash procedure in the generator repair manual.

 

[Stackowood]

I agree - and a 120v drill with a DC motor likely has diodes that prevent current from going back through the cord.

 

[Crzybowhntr]

That's creative, but normally there is a specific DC voltage that you would use to excite the windings and it can vary by the design of the generator and manufacturer. Generators don't normally lose residual unless they sit for a really long time, so the output issue may be something else. Let us know how it goes! What brand is it?

It is a Champion brand and model number 46596

 

[Crzybowhntr]

One problem here. Most electric drills do not have permanent magnets; just an induction type motor. No magnetism, No electrical generation; unless, an electrical current is present from the generator in the first place. I tried this method several times and it has failed every time for me. I instead use a 12 vdc lawn mower battery and do the flash procedure in the generator repair manual.

I`ll try that as well.
Thanks

 

[AVB]

If like I pm you links for the Briggs Generator Familiarize Handbook and the Troubleshooting Guide that I have my Google Drive. good info for learning on how the repair these portable generators. Whenever you can you do need the gen's wiring diagram as a few are reversed setup just manufactures do things different at times.

That particular use an AVR setup so I would try flashing then it that doesn't work either stator , AVR , or brushes are bad.

 

[Crzybowhntr]

If like I pm you links for the Briggs Generator Familiarize Handbook and the Troubleshooting Guide that I have my Google Drive. good info for learning on how the repair these portable generators. Whenever you can you do need the gen's wiring diagram as a few are reversed setup just manufactures do things different at times.

Yes. Please send and thanks! I`m going to try and test the AVR via a 12v battery tomorrow.

 

[shawn022]

One thing to keep in mind with generators is that they produce little to no power until they are running at 3600rpm.

 

[AVB]

Beg to differ as the 2 pole can and are ran at 3000 rpm for 50 Hz or 1500 rpm for the 4 pole models. Four pole models are diesel powered. Here in the US they are ran at 3750 off load and 3600 loaded for 60 Hz 2 pole or 1860 off load and 1800 loaded 4 pole. Note: most of the world uses 50 Hz electrical AC power when we here in the US uses 60 Hz.

 

[backhoelover]

how do yall test avr. honda makes a tester i thought about buying anyone used it

 

[shawn022]

Beg to differ as the 2 pole can and are ran at 3000 rpm for 50 Hz or 1500 rpm for the 4 pole models. Four pole models are diesel powered. Here in the US they are ran at 3750 off load and 3600 loaded for 60 Hz 2 pole or 1860 off load and 1800 loaded 4 pole. Note: most of the world uses 50 Hz electrical AC power when we here in the US uses 60 Hz.

Good info there. Thanks. I guess I should have said "most' generators. At least the ones in the U.S.
OP- what rpm are you running at?

 

[Crzybowhntr]

how do yall test avr. honda makes a tester i thought about buying anyone used it

I plan on trying this... TEST

 

[AVB]

how do yall test avr. honda makes a tester i thought about buying anyone used it

The Honda tester would probably be OEM specific as there are several different AVRs on the market.

Basic tests after verification that the brushes, communtor (slip) rings, rotor winding are good and residual magnetism is restored on this Coleman.

1. Measure voltage output from the excitation winding (readings should be 200-250V)
2. Measure the sensing voltage from the main winding (reading should be approximately 110-130V)

If all these are good then you replace the AVR as it is most likely bad.

As the OP has discovered there is an easy way to test which is along the lines of the basic generator troubleshooting methods using an voltmeter meter, a couple jumpers, and a battery but the above verifies that inputs are working.

Now with this said there are multiple ways voltage regulation can be done on various generators and you must know which regulation system you are working on. For the generator in this thread it is a solid state version.

 

[Crzybowhntr]

The Honda tester would probably be OEM specific as there are several different AVRs on the market.

Basic tests after verification that the brushes, communtor (slip) rings, rotor winding are good and residual magnetism is restored on this Coleman.

1. Measure voltage output from the excitation winding (readings should be 200-250V)
2. Measure the sensing voltage from the main winding (reading should be approximately 110-130V)

If all these are good then you replace the AVR as it is most likely bad.

As the OP has discovered there is an easy way to test which is along the lines of the basic generator troubleshooting methods using an voltmeter meter, a couple jumpers, and a battery but the above verifies that inputs are working.

Now with this said there are multiple ways voltage regulation can be done on various generators and you must know which regulation system you are working on. For the generator in this thread it is a solid state version.

Is it a sufficient test to utilize a 12v battery in place of the AVR to verify that the AVR is bad/good?

Do you sell parts? I have another generator that I am seeking parts for as well.

 

[AVB]

Normally yes; although, the inputs still checking as one maybe bad.

And although I do repair these I don't generally don't sell parts over the net but see the PM I am sending for a good general source for generator parts including those hard to HFT ones.

 

[backhoelover]

I plan on trying this... TEST

that is how i test my avrs now i just use a just use a jumper box

 

[backhoelover]

that is how i test my avrs now i just use a just use a jumper box

 

[Crzybowhntr]

I ran out of time. I took back cover off to find that the 4 wires were not connected to what I believe is called l1, l2, r1, r2. I need to find a diagram and proceed again tomorrow eve.

 

[AVB]

Here the OM and IPL for 46596. The wire diagram is in it.