FarmerTec MS250 shortblock upgrade to MS210

[PogoInTheWoods]

Anyone successfully used one of the FarmerTec MS250 shortblocks on a MS210? They're decent kits and bolt right up but won't run fer squat..., at least the one I just built. Thought it had carb issues at first but it now clearly seems to be a timing issue which would indicate the crank keyway isn't correct for an MS210 flywheel.
Did a fair amount of research on the coils, cranks, and flywheels today and have come to the conclusion that the kit simply isn't compatible with the MS210 or the 021 even tho the HLS ad claims it is. Hell, may not be correct for an MS250 either the way some of the FarmerTec stuff is going these days. I don't have a 250 flywheel and coil to test it, but I can say that with the carb set pretty lean on the 'L' and the idle adjust set fairly high, I can get just enough revs occasionally when starting to reach the typical built in advance for it to actually hit mid to WOT and act normally while it's in that advanced range. Will not settle down to an idle from WOT, tho. Just dies. Will start right back up and sustain a high idle but any throttle whatsoever just kills it. Adjusting the carb at that idle setting yields very little change but will result in backfire at the extremes of what would normally be the 'L' jet adjustment range. Yeah, backfire.

All sealed with Dirko and tight as a drum leak-wise. Fresh 91 octane e-free fuel mix. It is an EZ-start, but I pulled the carb, flywheel and starter from an 021 with no change in results. Fuel delivery is fine and there's spark you could weld with. Just doesn't seem to be happening when it's supposed to.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has run across this and how it was remedied.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Bumpin' this to see if anyone has successfully dropped a FarmerTec MS250 shortblock into a MS210C EasyStart housing using the 210C flywheel and coil. I'm going on the second FarmerTec crank with this project and the timing is still way out of whack. It's a customer saw, so I don't want to grind the key out of the flywheel just to experiment with timing. Don't have another EasyStart coil or flywheel to check the originals as the possible problems, either. Non EasyStart coils won't bolt up to an EZ case and have different timing anyway.

Just curious if anyone has just bolted one of these in without any problems. TIA for any input or enlightenment.

 

[Basher]

Run the piston to top dead center and see where the magnets on the flywheel correspond to the module. At true TDC they should be just a few degrees past lining up due to the spark firing 20 - 30 degrees BTDC. This will give an indication if the timing is way off, course the better means is hooking up a timing light.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I'll check that this morning if I have some time. No timing light available, tho.

I'm just wondering if the FarmerTec crank was copied from a Brazilian crank (yes, a Brazilion version exists) which presumably has the timing retarded somewhat to minimize pre-detonation with the lousy low octane gas down there. Combine that with the retarded timing of the EasyStart coil and you'd pretty much have the situation I'm fighting. Wouldn't necessarily be obvious with a regular coil, either. If I set the L jet just lean enough and the idle screw just high enough I can occasionally blip this thing up into the advanced timing curve and it runs and revs more like normal until it eventually backfires and dies..., which leads me back to the coil. And coils for these things are like $100. Ridiculous.

I could drop the shortblock into a conventional 1123 saw and see what happens there since I'm so far under water with this damned thing that the whole process has become little more than an exercise now. The other option (and an easier one) is to grind the key out of the flywheel and advance the timing a little at a time and see what that does. Would certainly eliminate the coil as the problem if it's indeed the keyway. Customer doesn't seem to like the idea of me grinding his flywheel. He's not gonna like the bill, either.

 

[Dub11]

@JohnnyBlade

 

[JohnnyBlade]

I installed an EXCITED RACING complete motor in a NON easy start MS210. Used the OEM bearing cup because it has recessed bolt holes for proper fit on chassis. It all went together very nice. Besides normal stuff like lines, carb kit, yada yada, i had no problems. It actually runs really good. I had no timing issuses and the coil and flywheel r OEM.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Coil and flywheel are different on the EZ as is the engine housing. Cranks are the same for all of em except for the stroke on the 021/210. I used the OEM pan for the very reason you mention. Think I may have read a post of yours describing the problem. Was a pronounced difference in fit in my case. So much so that I considered the possibility of the timing actually being affected by the difference in the position of the flywheel from the engine sitting higher in the housing..., that and the main difference in the housing being how the coil mounts.

 

[JohnnyBlade]

Sounds like the problem is cuz its an EZ start? It would be a good thing to drop it into another saw to see if it will run. Sucks when ur chasing a ghost. @Dub11 who was the person that u told me about that did one of these before me? Was it @Czed? I have found a thread or two on the conversion that i kind of used as a guide. Cant remember if there wer any EZ starts involved. Maybe they can shine some more light on the subject.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Not necessarily. I haven't ruled out the EZ coil itself as the problem. The saw essentially burned up due to the owner forgetting to install the air filter after cleaning and it ingested a ton of debris. Toasted both the top and bottom ends. LOTS of heat generated in the meltdown. Coil could have been affected. Only a couple ways to eliminate the coil. One of em costs $100 and the other involves tearing down two 1123 saws to put the FT shortblock in a traditional start saw. Still doesn't rule out a combined timing issue between the AM crank and an EZ coil as mentioned previously. And I have read that advancing the timing on these kits makes a big difference in performance when used as a replacement for a traditional start 1123 saw. May be reaching, but we all know these kits are sometimes copies of copies -- often bad ones.

 

[Fruecrue]

I think I have a wrecked ms210 crank in a bin.
I could take a pick later of the flywheel side to reference keyway timing if it’ll help.
I’ve also used an exciting racing kit in the past.
Runs pretty good and is still working, couple years old now.

 

[Dub11]

Sounds like the problem is cuz its an EZ start? It would be a good thing to drop it into another saw to see if it will run. Sucks when ur chasing a ghost. @Dub11 who was the person that u told me about that did one of these before me? Was it @Czed? I have found a thread or two on the conversion that i kind of used as a guide. Cant remember if there wer any EZ starts involved. Maybe they can shine some more light on the subject.

@cobey was the guy.

 

[Carhartt]

How did you talk a customer into rebuilding a top and bottom end on a MS210? Your bill has to be getting close to a replacement. Is it because its an EZ start and he cant start anything else? I run into that with some customers with shoulder/rotator cuff problems.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

The shortblock kit was only 50 bucks or so and I can tear one of these saws down in 20 minutes. Saw was like new and he likes it. Told him I'd do it for $125.

Silly me. LOL

I think I have a wrecked ms210 crank in a bin.
I could take a pick later of the flywheel side to reference keyway timing if it’ll help.
I’ve also used an exciting racing kit in the past.
Runs pretty good and is still working, couple years old now.

As for comparing keyways, I have the old 210 crank and it's definitely advanced a fair amount to compensate for the shorter stroke to be able to use the same coil as the 230 and 250. But I appreciate the offer. At this point I'm leaning toward grinding the key out of the flywheel and gradually advancing the timing. Probably woulda had it figured out by now if I'da done that in the first place.

And who is Exciting Racing? Haven't run across them yet.

​

 

[Fruecrue]

I don’t see why timing would change due to stroke. Degrees before TDC is degrees before TDC.
Advance your flywheel the difference between those cranks, problem solved I’d bet.
Exciting racing was/ is a brand or seller of aftermarket parts. Complete engine kits were like 30-35 dollars shipped.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I don’t see why timing would change due to stroke. Degrees before TDC is degrees before TDC.

That being the case, I would think the flywheel should then be advanced to the keyway position of the 210EZ crank instead of in between.

 

[Fruecrue]

That being the case, I would think the flywheel should then be advanced to the keyway position of the 210EZ crank instead of in between.

I didn’t mean in between if that’s what you are thinking.
I meant if the difference between the two is 10 degrees, advance it that much.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Gotcha. Nothing to lose at this point and should have done it in the first place. Been too busy overthinking the whole thing to simply compare the cranks. Dumb ass. (Me, not you!)

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Any suggestions for the cleanest and safest way to remove the key from the flywheel?

 

[JohnnyBlade]

@Fruecrue i looked awhile today on ebay trying to find a link to post for the exciting racing motors. I couldnt find um for the life of me. Do they still make them?

 

[nohoff]

The crank on ez start saws and regular start saws is the same.