Farmertec 440 cylinder/piston options?

[Pincher]

After having the complete saw parts kit sitting around for over a year, this below zero temperature made me decide to put the 440 saw together. I managed to install the crank and started to check port timing and sqiush. The squish comes in at .070 without base gasket. Timing is at IN72 EX97 Transfer 114. The question I have is there a taller piston option? Does anyone know the connecting rod length so I can figure out where the timing numbers will be at around .020 squish. Cutting the squish band does not look like an option by the ring of death. It looks like the top ring will be at the edge.

 

[huskyboy]

@MustangMike

 

[stihl_head1982]

@MustangMike

Yep I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps he will be along soon. He has quite a bit of knowledge on these things.

 

[MustangMike]

I would likely use a Meteor or OEM piston, and see if those #s improve. Otherwise, sounds like you need to find someone to cut your base.

I have never used one of the cylinders that came with the saw. I checked one, and the Sq was .058, so I never played with it.

The New West P+C is all very useable if you do some port work to it, and I have also used the HLS door buster 460 jugs with Meteor and OEM pistons. They don't require much work to fit.

These items both go on sale every now and then at HLS for very reasonable amounts. The New West cylinder needs more port work, but I think the plating is a little better, and I like their D combustion chambers. Also, I use their piston and rings, so they are worth it to me. A couple of the saws I have built from them run very strong.

They don't say New West on them, but you can figure it out from the item #s.

 

[Pincher]

Thanks for the info! I would like to hear from anyone that has used the jug that came with the kit.

 

[Stump Shot]

Off the top of my head I would want to look at a Meteor 266 or the 268xp piston with the full open window. It would be taller I believe, but unsure just exactly by how much. Might just get you there by accident.

 

[cus_deluxe]

Belt sander ftw!!!

 

[Stump Shot]

Belt sander ftw!!!

#goodenoughforwhoitsfor

 

[MustangMike]

Don't forget the .020 Sharpie line!

 

[Pincher]

MustangMike called it correctly that a meteor piston would be better. The piston that came with the kit measures 20.67mm height and meteor shows 21.5. That would bring squish down to .040 without gasket.
Stump Shot 268 piston idea is 24mm height. That would require about .080 gasket. The 372 piston if windowed would be the easiest with 22.5mm height, dont know if a windowed version exists.
On HL supply website they show an 50mm stihl 038 piston and a Dolmar/makita 7300 piston that have windows. Anyone have specs on either one of these?
Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[huskihl]

MustangMike called it correctly that a meteor piston would be better. The piston that came with the kit measures 20.67mm height and meteor shows 21.5. That would bring squish down to .040 without gasket.
Stump Shot 268 piston idea is 24mm height. That would require about .080 gasket. The 372 piston if windowed would be the easiest with 22.5mm height, dont know if a windowed version exists.
On HL supply website they show an 50mm stihl 038 piston and a Dolmar/makita 7300 piston that have windows. Anyone have specs on either one of these?
Thanks for the suggestions!

The 7300 skirts are pretty narrow. 372 isn't windowed. Not sure about the 038.

I could machine the base down to fit your piston or the meteor if you'd like. Only takes a few minutes

 

[Pincher]

The skirt on the "kit" piston measure 1.3". It barely covers the intake opening and thats before i deburr the edges. I might have to go replacement jug route.

 

[huskihl]

The skirt on the "kit" piston measure 1.3". It barely covers the intake opening and thats before i deburr the edges. I might have to go replacement jug route.
View attachment 161947 View attachment 161948

That might freeport on the right side when it's installed. And looks like *s-word. I'd show them your pictures and get a replacement

 

[MustangMike]

I'd check if the Meteor is a wider skirt. I know on the 460s, they are wider than OEM. I have a Meteor 460 piston, but not a 440!

That, or just go BB!

 

[stihl_head1982]

The skirt on the "kit" piston measure 1.3". It barely covers the intake opening and thats before i deburr the edges. I might have to go replacement jug route.
View attachment 161947 View attachment 161948

The edges on the ports look bad. Is the experience of you guys that all these look like that? (what say ye Mike?)

 

[MustangMike]

I agree, and yes, most AM jugs have to be cleaned up. Some exhaust ports (even on the New West, that I like) are not even close to symmetrical.

Always check the lower side of the Exhaust (where you can't see). This is often flat and not beveled, and can hang a ring/break a piston.

 

[MustangMike]

This is a New West 440 BB cylinder before I ported it. See my Sharpie trace on the exhaust … it was horrible! (and they all seem to be like this)

Also had to raise the intake to the top of the black mark to get to 78. Luckily, the intake is the easiest one for me to work on.

But after you do the port work, IMO, they run great! I think I practiced enough that I have it down!

 

[Pincher]

This is a New West 440 BB cylinder before I ported it. See my Sharpie trace on the exhaust … it was horrible! (and they all seem to be like this)

Also had to raise the intake to the top of the black mark to get to 78. Luckily, the intake is the easiest one for me to work on.

But after you do the port work, IMO, they run great! I think I practiced enough that I have it down!

Does any of this port work require the right angle attachment? I've cleaned up a few intake and exhaust ports with my fordom. I do not have anything to change the uppers.

 

[MustangMike]

I do not have a right angle grinder, but I use small, cheap HF tools. I use a diamond ball, and cone shaped carbide cutter, and a stone disc to drop the transfers down after I cut the plating with the ball. The stone disc is almost 1/2" in diameter, and I guess I use it in place of an angle tool.

I only use it on the upper transfers, and only after I remove the plating. The stone came with the HF tool, I bought the other stuff on ebay. Nothing expensive. The HF grinder is normally $9.99, and I got some on sale for $6.99, so I now have 3 of them so I don't have to change heads.

 

[drf256]

I’ve got an oem 044 P&C for sale. If you start adding up the costs you’ve already incurred for the above jug and the meteor, it’s not much different.

It’s your call.

http://opeforum.com/threads/044-p-c.15340/

The AM stuff is just a cat in the bag.