Echo help - CS 4400

[Jimmy in NC]

So I recently picked up a CS 4400 from a member here. Great condition under the mung... only real mark is a chunk knocked out of the rear handle in shipping. Looking it over I thought it had very low hours..but the clutch spur drum is worn totally out. OK....looking for one and I see Echo lists a serial number break and two different part numbers and bearings. This means the bearing rollers are different size and a bigger or smaller clutch drum bore as the cranks (inner bearing race) are all the same.

Earlier saws used a floating small spline rim setup. I am either going to use this setup OR is there a 3/8 LP spur I can install off of another small Echo? Anyone have any knowledge on this?

Anyone have an Oregon cross reference or any other brand drum vs the $38 Echo drum?

 

[Steve]

Small spline oregon drum is 513442. Thats with .325 7 pin rim and bearing. Amazon has them for 19 bucks. I think stihl makes a 3/8 lp rim?

 

[Stevetheboatguy]

Can anyone verify this is what Jimmy might need?



Found it in my poulan stash. Think I tried it converting a poulan pro 50cc from 3/8 to .325. Didn't work out. Wish I would have remembered I had it. Would have sent it with the saw.


Steven

 

[Wood Doctor]

I recently restored a CS-4500 from trash. Now it runs like a champ. I have an 18" OEM bar with .325 pitch chain, and it really likes that. You might want to consider that for your CS-4400. Got any pics of the saw?

 

[Jimmy in NC]

First let me clarify...this is what the damage was...a nothing. I am in no way upset with the seller (Steve) at all. Shippers have a way of breaking anything!


Other than having been run a lot...it is very clean. No chain rash or evidence it ever threw a chain. Handle rubber is in great shape too.

 

[Jimmy in NC]

I recently restored a CS-4500 from trash. Now it runs like a champ. I have an 18" OEM bar with .325 pitch chain, and it really likes that. You might want to consider that for your CS-4400. Got any pics of the saw?

Have not taken any since clean up...but it has cleaned up nicely. I had a CS 440 before..my first saw actually. It wore an 18" - .325 setup. I know it will do it but was just thinking LoProfile 3/8 may make it really nice. .325 is smoother but the smaller cutters may be nice on it. I don't think it will be bad either way.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Have not taken any since clean up...but it has cleaned up nicely. I had a CS 440 before..my first saw actually. It wore an 18" - .325 setup. I know it will do it but was just thinking LoProfile 3/8 may make it really nice. .325 is smoother but the smaller cutters may be nice on it. I don't think it will be bad either way.

Agreed. Here's my CS-4500 after clean up:

You would not want to see a "before" Pic. This saw was caked with grime. That bar had more rust on it than any I had ever worked on. Frankly, I was surprised that it started and ran at all. A few prayers may have helped. Now she's raring to go.

Any idea what year this saw was built? No chain brake, so I estimate 1985. The Owner's Manual has no copyright date.

 

[shadco]

Think I’d try 24 hour JB there.

.

 

[Wood Doctor]

My CS-4500 may have been shut down by the massive amount of grime and dirt I found inside the pull cord housing. The ignition module was so packed with crud that I think it was being shorted out so that no spark was making it to the plug. I even found a mud dauber's nest in there.

Lord knows where this saw was being stored. In all, I believe the saw is now half a pound lighter in weight from what I scraped out and threw away. It's as if the saw was buried somewhere. Gasp!

 

[thesawincanada]

My first saw is a cs4400. Got it off the shelf. Happens to be right infront of me while having a coffee and reading this post. Its very clean. Found it a great saw but a little underpowered, have a Stihl square cut chain on it.

 

[thesawincanada]

 

[Jimmy in NC]

After a quick bath...

 

[Jimmy in NC]

I think its worth fixing on. Honestly as I've been working in the shop today [wood working Christmas present] I wonder if a wrong pitch chain was run on this drum causing accelerated wear. The rest of the saw does not look like it was used that much. Thoughts?

 

[Wood Doctor]

Agreed. This saw was probably worn out quickly, and that can happen in various ways, most likely by letting the bar oil run out or using the wrong bar oil. Sometimes it's too much pressure during the cut or a combination of all three, forcing the engine really hard. Heat build up can be very destructive and often the clutch bearing burns up as well.

My CS-4500 was just plain treated like dirt after being used and never cleaned up or serviced by anyone. Time killed it along with insects, rust, and anything else that stopped by. There is evidence that the mounts were torn apart by pulling and yanking on a trapped bar. I replaced all the mounts connecting the tank housing to the case. There are lots of ways that chain saws can be abused.

I imagine my older 4500 is a pound or two heavier than a 4400. primarily because of more metal and less plastic, plus an aux. oil pump that I will likely never use. It oils the bar like a bandit without it. Jimmy, I really believe this saw is worth saving. These saws were built to last. Please keep up the good work.

 

[Jimmy in NC]

Agreed. This saw was probably worn out quickly, and that can happen in various ways, most likely by letting the bar oil run out or using the wrong bar oil. Sometimes it's too much pressure during the cut or a combination of all three, forcing the engine really hard. Heat build up can be very destructive and often the clutch bearing burns up as well.

My CS-4500 was just plain treated like dirt after being used and never cleaned up or serviced by anyone. Time killed it along with insects, rust, and anything else that stopped by. There is evidence that the mounts were torn apart by pulling and yanking on a trapped bar. I replaced all the mounts connecting the tank housing to the case. There are lots of ways that chain saws can be abused.

I imagine my older 4500 is a pound or two heavier than a 4400. primarily because of more metal and less plastic, plus an aux. oil pump that I will likely never use. It oils the bar like a bandit without it. Jimmy, I really believe this saw is worth saving. These saws were built to last. Please keep up the good work.

Ohh don't worry..it will be saved. I am an Echo junky from way back. Carb kit on the bench....but I have to finish other things first.

 

[Jimmy in NC]

Don't tell my wife...I got up early to do the carb...she left for a few minutes and I fired it up...back to playing Christmas elf in the shop.

 

[Wood Doctor]

It looks and sounds very good, Jimmy. Now all you have to do is make sure that it oils the bar and chain OK and cuts nicely. If so, that's a keeper! My 4500 runs about the same, but yours is lighter in weight. The engines must be about the same size. I run ,325 chain on mine with an 18" bar, but I figure yours has 3/8" low profile.

 

[Jimmy in NC]

It looks and sounds very good, Jimmy. Now all you have to do is make sure that it oils the bar and chain OK and cuts nicely. If so, that's a keeper! My 4500 runs about the same, but yours is lighter in weight. The engines must be about the same size. I run ,325 chain on mine with an 18" bar, but I figure yours has 3/8" low profile.

The CS-4400 / CS-440 were only ever sold with .325 setups on them. Early offerings had a small (3/4") spline rim setup. Later versions list only a spur sprocket but there are two different spur sprockets and two different drum bearings. This tells me that somwhere along the line they either up sized or down sized the drum bearing. The crank shaft (which is the inner race of the drum bearing) is the same through the whole run meaning the same OD for the clutch bearing inner race. Most were sold with an 18" setup on them. They will run it and that is what my original saw had. I for the time being am going to set it up with .325/18" setup as Steven found a spur he had and I can snag a K041 bar and chain combo new for less than $40. I do know that a simple muffler mod helped my first saw quite a bit but I think I am going to leave this one all stock with the exception of adding some reflective tape under the top cover over the muffler as it never hurts to protect it. Sometimes it's nice to have a relatively quiet saw that just works.

I have a line on some smaller Echo saws and it looks like the same clutch is used on several different saws, smaller and larger. I will try at some point to find a drum that runs the 3/8 LP chain so I could run an A041 bar. I am willing to bet the saw that runs .325/7 okay, will really get down with a 3/8LP x 6 spur. I do the exact same thing to the popular 025/MS250 saws that come through my shop. I have never had a complaint. Smaller cutters and dropping a tooth on the spur really lets the little motors spin with out going to narrow kerf chain. Also the A041 bars and chains are EVERYWHERE. Any big box home improvement store has them as well as WalMart and other popular retailers. This makes finding a chain in a pinch super easy and cheap.

As for the oiling, like all Echo saws this one pumps like crazy. I have seen one Echo not oil, an old CS 451EVL, and that was simply an old O-ring and away she went. It was oiling in the video, but turned WAY down. I try not to run oil pumps dry even if I have no chain on the saw. The big oil blob on my tail gate says it was oiling fine.

 

[Jimmy in NC]

Bling bling!

 

[Jimmy in NC]

New spur, new bar and chain, and some misc smalls. I noticed tonight it seeps fuel at the fuel line tank grommet...meh...its a saw. Tomorrow I hope to put some fuel through it if it stops raining.

I did confirm today that it was run with 3/8LP and that mismatch is what killed the original spur. Looking at the wear it is clear what happened.