066 red light? fw crank seal size issue

[wcorey]

A year or two ago I picked up the better part of a reasonably clean 066 saw-in-a-box that I've finally scrounged enough of the missing bits for and gotten around to putting it together.

The guy I got it from, got it along with a pile of other saw stuff and didn't have any history on it.
Has a red light tank and coil, looks to be a short case from what little I know about these. Has the little oval plug by the oil cap...
The case must be a replacement as the serial number pad is blank and the crank appears to be new judging by the unblemished finish on the small end bearing surface.
I didn't notice at the time but turned out the cylinder with it was an 064...

Had to replace the pto crank seal, the lip was flipped out/herniated in one spot from a bad install but the fw side 'looked' ok .

Well, it failed pressure & vac miserably and it was the fw side seal leaking like a sieve all the way around.
Turns out the seal is 15x22x4 and the crank is 13.5mm, close enough to look ok on casual inspection but obviously very little pressure on the seal lip.
Looked into getting a new seal and according to the ipl's the choice is either 15x22x4 or 13.5x20x4, of course I would need 13.5x22x4.

I can sleeve the seal pocket down to 20mm but would prefer to get the 'right' seal, if there is such a thing.

WTH kind of mutt do I have? Did they make a short case with a 22mm seal? Did someone bore this one out?

 

[huskihl]

You have a 64 or early 066 crank in a later 066 or 660 case

 

[wcorey]

I thought the 'short case' were the earlier ones...

This be it...

 

[Mastermind]

You have a 64 or early 066 crank in a later 066 or 660 case

Yep. No seal exists to fit properly.

 

[Mastermind]

I thought the 'short case' were the earlier ones...

There were a few built with a poly flywheel crank.

 

[MustangMike]

Yep. No seal exists to fit properly.

That sucks, does he need to swap the crank?

 

[wcorey]

Oh well, guess I'll just sleeve it down.

 

[MG porting]

Looks like a 064 case same as the one I have now my question is so your saying the seal pocket on the case is to big for the seal??

 

[wcorey]

Looks like a 064 case same as the one I have now my question is so your saying the seal pocket on the case is to big for the seal??

Yes.
Early 066 had a smaller 13.5mm fw side crank/seal journal and the seal is 13.5x20x4, so a 20mm od.
660 and later 066 had a 15mm fw crank/seal journal and the seal is 15x22x4, so a 22mm od.

Apparently my saw is a mongrel and has the older 13.5 crank and a case with a 22mm pocket for the seal and there is no seal available in that size combination.
Evidently there was a short time that short cases were made with the larger pocket and were combined with the newer poly flywheel cranks.

Live and learn, it's endless...

Since my first posts I've already pressed a sleeve in the case and put in a used 13.5x20 seal I found in my misc stihl stuff stash, will pick up a new one at some point but this one seems fine for now. Saw is finally running and will hopefully see a few test cuts tomorrow.

I also have an 064 project needing a bunch of stuff including a crank, so if I find a later 066/660 crank first I may just swap them. Then the flywheel situation will need sorting out...

 

[MG porting]

Yes.
Early 066 had a smaller 13.5mm fw side crank/seal journal and the seal is 13.5x20x4, so a 20mm od.
660 and later 066 had a 15mm fw crank/seal journal and the seal is 15x22x4, so a 22mm od.

Apparently my saw is a mongrel and has the older 13.5 crank and a case with a 22mm pocket for the seal and there is no seal available in that size combination.
Evidently there was a short time that short cases were made with the larger pocket and were combined with the newer poly flywheel cranks.

Live and learn, it's endless...

Since my first posts I've already pressed a sleeve in the case and put in a used 13.5x20 seal I found in my misc stihl stuff stash, will pick up a new one at some point but this one seems fine for now. Saw is finally running and will hopefully see a few test cuts tomorrow.

I also have an 064 project needing a bunch of stuff including a crank, so if I find a later 066/660 crank first I may just swap them. Then the flywheel situation will need sorting out...

You will need to run a poly flywheel with the late model crank but you may also be able to use the farmertec flywheel to.

 

[Mastermind]

Yes.
Early 066 had a smaller 13.5mm fw side crank/seal journal and the seal is 13.5x20x4, so a 20mm od.
660 and later 066 had a 15mm fw crank/seal journal and the seal is 15x22x4, so a 22mm od.

Apparently my saw is a mongrel and has the older 13.5 crank and a case with a 22mm pocket for the seal and there is no seal available in that size combination.
Evidently there was a short time that short cases were made with the larger pocket and were combined with the newer poly flywheel cranks.

Live and learn, it's endless...

Since my first posts I've already pressed a sleeve in the case and put in a used 13.5x20 seal I found in my misc stihl stuff stash, will pick up a new one at some point but this one seems fine for now. Saw is finally running and will hopefully see a few test cuts tomorrow.

I also have an 064 project needing a bunch of stuff including a crank, so if I find a later 066/660 crank first I may just swap them. Then the flywheel situation will need sorting out...

The sleeve was a great idea Bill. Did you machine one for it, or was it something you found somehow?

 

[wcorey]

The sleeve was a great idea Bill. Did you machine one for it, or was it something you found somehow?

Banged out a quickie on the lathe, random piece of ally.
As typical for me first one ended up too close to a slip fit so added a few thousandths to the next one. I think there may have been a bit of a lip on the pocket from getting seals beat in, threw my measurements off.

If I did it again I’d probably do it in stainless so I could abuse it more drifting it in.

 

[Mastermind]

Banged out a quickie on the lathe, random piece of ally.
As typical for me first one ended up too close to a slip fit so added a few thousandths to the next one. I think there may have been a bit of a lip on the pocket from getting seals beat in, threw my measurements off.

If I did it again I’d probably do it in stainless so I could abuse it more drifting it in.

I figured you whipped one up....

 

[Basher]

To get around forcing a bushing into the pocket I packed the bushing I made from aluminum between two slabs of dry ice overnight and next morning heated the case half to 350F in a toaster oven. I knew from previous rodeo`s that the case would be hot and the bushing even hotter/cold but with some earlier practice sessions this one went together without striking or forcing the bushing in, when both metal pieces reached room temps one couldn`t separate them without damage . The seal went in as per usual with no evidence of the bore being out of round. Those that know me know I am a big fan of heat differentials and I use them as much as possible.

 

[Mastermind]

To get around forcing a bushing into the pocket I packed the bushing I made from aluminum between two slabs of dry ice overnight and next morning heated the case half to 350F in a toaster oven. I knew from previous rodeo`s that the case would be hot and the bushing even hotter/cold but with some earlier practice sessions this one went together without striking or forcing the bushing in, when both metal pieces reached room temps one couldn`t separate them without damage . The seal went in as per usual with no evidence of the bore being out of round. Those that know me know I am a big fan of heat differentials and I use them as much as possible.

I remember this same situation coming up years ago. Back then only a few of us (I wasn't one) had a lathe, or the ability to create one of these bushings.

 

[Basher]

I remember this same situation coming up years ago. Back then only a few of us (I wasn't one) had a lathe, or the ability to create one of these bushings.

Quite true, times have changed for many of us, for me I was working on and around machine lathes since the early 70`s. Even earlier turning wood on wood lathes, early enough to make wooden spoke wheels....LOL

 

[Al Smith]

Those that know me know I am a big fan of heat differentials and I use them as much as possible.

Works for me too .

 

[Mastermind]

I'll be making a set of thrust washers to take up some space in the wrist pin boss area in a couple of days.....a few years ago, it would have been something special. These days....not so much.

 

[wcorey]

With this part it's more that it's a 1mm thin little aluminum ring and I was not bothering to take the time to make a proper drift to set it in. With the generous amount of interference I left on it I doubt a reasonable temp differential would have let it just drop in.
Steel would make things less fussy, including tapping the seal in.

 

[Basher]

I'll be making a set of thrust washers to take up some space in the wrist pin boss area in a couple of days.....a few years ago, it would have been something special. These days....not so much.

Delrin?