044 project

[Canadian farm boy]

This is a 046 cylinder that's been clearances for a 044 hybrid build.
When you tighten down the cylinder just make sure the piston is at BDC. This will help align the cylinder.

 

[MattG]

When you tighten down the cylinder just make sure the piston is at BDC. This will help align the cylinder.

10-4 thanks for that Mike!

 

[J_M____]

This is a 046 cylinder that's been clearances for a 044 hybrid build.
When you tighten down the cylinder just make sure the piston is at BDC. This will help align the cylinder.View attachment 83839View attachment 83840View attachment 83841

Do you have any pictures of any other modifications needed to fit the 046 cylinder on the 044? It looks like some have posted the case might need some grinding as well as the fins on the top of the cylinder so the cover fits.

 

[MattG]

Do you have any pictures of any other modifications needed to fit the 046 cylinder on the 044? It looks like some have posted the case might need some grinding as well as the fins on the top of the cylinder so the cover fits.

First I had to grind the embossed numbers off the jug. See #49 for details. Then just grind/file a little from the lower jug fins on the ignition side. See @Canadian farm boy 's piccie here #101 . I think with mine I ground a little less than Mike did. You don't need to do much. Just keep hitting it till it drops on and you can slide it about a little on the casing flange.

You shouldn't need to grind the case to actually drop the jug on....I was case grinding so that my early 044 (10mm wrist pin engined) casings would receive a 12mm wrist pin crank shaft (MS440).

I *think* I'm good with any clearancing issues right now - will report back later on if any thing else materialises.

 

[MattG]

Well, gentlemen,

This 044/046 hybrid stuff is pretty tough to someone like me. I.e. aligning the new jug down, with the piston fitted on the crank.

When I put the jug down on the cases *without* the piston, the 4 screws threaded up nice and smooth.

But on lowering the jug onto the installed piston, it felt kinda tight. And I couldn't thread up all 4 screws when the piston is at BDC (or thereabouts).......not without forcing them (which I did not).

So I guess cos its a brand new P+C the ovality of piston is forcing the correct alignment of the jug, and it's telling me that I've not taken enough off one or more of the jug holes. (*growl*).





Wondering exacting how to proceed on this one, that is, shall I blindly file the same off all 4 holes? Or should I try to ascertain which hole needs more removing it? Perhaps I should keep the jug on the piston and crank, remove all the screws and just look down the jug holes and try to sight up whats wrong. etc.

Just hope I've not messed this jug up and can get it down ok, eventually.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Stop grumbling and keep going. This part of the build. Your right on point! Clay helps sometimes. Pack the case top with the piston down in. Drop the jug down tight as you can. Pull jug. Pull the clay as your cutting it away from the base and piston. Check the piston gap. Wiggle wiggle grind and file.

 

[J_M____]

First I had to grind the embossed numbers off the jug. See #49 for details. Then just grind/file a little from the lower jug fins on the ignition side. See @Canadian farm boy 's piccie here #101 . I think with mine I ground a little less than Mike did. You don't need to do much. Just keep hitting it till it drops on and you can slide it about a little on the casing flange.

You shouldn't need to grind the case to actually drop the jug on....I was case grinding so that my early 044 (10mm wrist pin engined) casings would receive a 12mm wrist pin crank shaft (MS440).

I *think* I'm good with any clearancing issues right now - will report back later on if any thing else materialises.

Thanks for the info. I was going to do the same but use a 460BB 54mm cylinder. I don't have an oem cylinder to use and I thought the 54 mm piston might need some case clearance on the inside. I don't have the kit yet, should have it next week.

 

[MattG]

Stop grumbling and keep going. This part of the build. Your right on point! Clay helps sometimes. Pack the case top with the piston down in. Drop the jug down tight as you can. Pull jug. Pull the clay as your cutting it away from the base and piston. Check the piston gap. Wiggle wiggle grind and file.

Ha ha! I'm kind of inclined to take this an inspirational speech..........but I'm puzzled as to the use of the clay.

Anyway, I'm going and regrind things later today, so hopefully will have better things to report then.

 

[MattG]

Thanks for the info. I was going to do the same but use a 460BB 54mm cylinder. I don't have an oem cylinder to use and I thought the 54 mm piston might need some case clearance on the inside. I don't have the kit yet, should have it next week.

Hmm.... when I fitted the piston to the crank (without attempting to install the jug) the piston seems to have plenty of clearance, though it's hard to appreciate where exactly it wants to be with the jug down. (Perhaps that's what @Lightning Performance meant with his earlier reference to clay?)

But I'm using the slightly smaller 52mm standard 46 P+C.

 

[Lightning Performance]

If your filed holes are close the piston should have room all the way around. If it does not your off center or the case needs ground to clear the bigger piston size. Every case can be different. I have fit a 12mm crank saw up to a 54mm 460 BB. Not much room on that one. Had an early 10mm 044 that would not clear a 460 piston dropped in on the rod. I cut an 044 12mm case last year to clear a 460 BB piston. It was also to tight to run a OEM 460 piston.

 

[MattG]

Just been in the garage...for a hour or so. I've now got 3 of the 4 screws threading real smooth.

Making a cuppa tea, then back out!

 

[Adirondackstihl]

 

[MattG]

A little bit more filing and I've now got all 4 screws threading down nicely. Another nice thing being that I can now turn the crank ends, (w/o the flywheel on etc.), and move the piston freely several times around BDC to TDC and so on. So several hours of happiness elapsed from then on.....

 

[Adirondackstihl]

Now you need a proprietary Two Idiots Logging hybrid muffler spacer designed by yours truly!
I think DDave sells em

 

[MattG]

Now you need a proprietary Two Idiots Logging hybrid muffler spacer designed by yours truly!
I think DDave sells em

View attachment 84287 View attachment 84288

Wow! Yeah maybe.....

Explain more about it, my friend, what are the benefits?

 

[MattG]

Had an early 10mm 044 that would not clear a 460 piston dropped in on the rod.

Hello again,

Now I'm all good with the 4 screws threading down nice, I had a think about the case clearance thing you mentioned. I *assume* you meant this kinda of thing:



Correct?
which made the exhaust side look as follows:

so adding the figures on the feelers and guessing the value for the tiny air gap left, I'm reckoning that I have about 1.1 mm of clearance in total from skirt to base. My gut feel, tells me that's ok.....but what's your opinion? And indeed anyone else reading (I welcome more opinions!!), do you think that's adequate?

Yes, I could grind the case top, and don't mind doing so, but since I've already ground about 0.3-0.4mm off the case insides for the 12mm crank b/end to clear, I'd sooner not add more crank case volume, if possible. (Yes, I've been reading the odd port thread about case suction being higher when the case volume is not too high compared to the displaced volume in the jug, and that this suction is generally a *good thing*).

 

[Adirondackstihl]

Wow! Yeah maybe.....

Explain more about it, my friend, what are the benefits?

Not really a benefit but more of a necessity.
The larger 046/460 jug sticks out approx 0.1875" further than the 044/440 jug, creating a space that needs to filled.
I got tired of trying to stick washers in there which is a total PITA on the PTO side.
Not sure what he sells em for, but it ain't much and they're totally worth it.

Having a one piece spacer span both bolt holes is a huge relief. Trust me

 

[Basher]

Since it is very difficult to tell accurately just where the piston skirt will end up at clearance wise to the case I shot for .025 clearance all the way around. The piston may have just enough clearance when all is new and tight but as the piston wears in a bit the intake side needs a touch more clearance as the piston will cock slightly in the bore. Not saying that .010 isn`t enough if that is actually what the piston to case has after bolting down but it wasn`t enough of a margin for me to be comfortable on my installs.

 

[MattG]

Not really a benefit but more of a necessity.

Since it is very difficult to tell accurately just where the piston skirt will end up at clearance wise to the case I shot for .025 clearance all the way around.

Thanks guys, very helpful advice. Will keep you all posted.

 

[MattG]

Now you need a proprietary Two Idiots Logging hybrid muffler spacer designed by yours truly!
I think DDave sells em

Sorry to repeat this reply. But does anyone e.g. @Definitive Dave have an ebay link (with shipping to UK ) for one of these?