Stihl MS500i

huskyboy · Nov 7, 2019

Nutball said:
First cuts, I was learning its power curve while aiming for the slowest chain speed without slipping the clutch. That's how I get the fastest times in that wood. Looks like I did what I wanted to, but it is a very fine balance getting a slow chain speed without stalling it.

File that chain a little more aggressive on the hook or raker (experiment and find what works) and you won’t have to push as hard. There’s a fine line between too aggressive and not aggressive enough.

Nutball · Nov 7, 2019

Yea, I was trying to use the same chain as stock for comparison. I'm trying to start with them more aggressive now even during the stock test. My video is a good example of how not to run a saw, but I knew exactly what I was doing. Actually it was during that particular 490 that I learned putting power in at a lower chain speed cut faster, so I didn't have my chains sorted out yet.

rogue60 · Nov 7, 2019

Nutball said:
First cuts, I was learning its power curve while aiming for the slowest chain speed without slipping the clutch. That's how I get the fastest times in that wood. Looks like I did what I wanted to, but it is a very fine balance getting a slow chain speed without stalling it.

Hope you don't use a saw like that all the time I don't think they are designed to be pulled down in rpm to chain stalling speed constantly.
They must get that hot the flywheel isn't even doing enough rpm to cool the saw properly how black and brunt is the under side of the piston from over heating?

Nutball · Nov 7, 2019

I tend to run them faster when working, that's just my technique for timed test cuts. No guessing if I'm cutting with the same rpm and pressure each cut because I have the same goal in mind: min rpm without clutch slip, and I can also usually tell when the cut speed drops off from too slow of a chain speed, so there's a fine point to aim for. I think it helps with consistency. Also it is a way to compare the torque of saws.

Good point though on the cooling issue. It would be interesting to see how much the temperature is affected by rpm. Lower rpm means less heat generated over a given time, but the heat is held inside longer per stroke.

huskyboy · Nov 7, 2019

Lug a saw too low and you loose your oil volume to the bar as well. Less oil on chain. Shouldn't have to push that hard on a saw to cut fastest. Just file the chain to work the saw for you. You will be less tired at the end of the day and the saw/bar will last longer.

Nutball · Nov 7, 2019

huskyboy said:
Lug a saw too low and you loose your oil volume to the bar as well. Less oil on chain.

But the chain will still get the same volume of oil per rotation right, considering how the chain is linked up to the pump through the clutch bell? That should be a fixed amount,and it will have a better chance of not being slung off the tip at slower speeds. What do you think?

huskyboy · Nov 7, 2019

Nutball said:
But the chain will still get the same volume of oil per rotation right, considering how the chain is linked up to the pump through the clutch bell? That should be a fixed amount,and it will have a better chance of not being slung off the tip at slower speeds. What do you think?

Around 3:45 in this video should explain this a bit better for you. You get more oil at high rpm and less at low rpm. The pump only spins as fast as the rpms of the motor. Does this mean you should let your saw scream in the cut? No. Just cut normally and keep saw loaded in its powerband. If you have to lug it to cut fast then your chain isn’t good enough.

MustangMike · Nov 7, 2019

My take … you have to go with the circumstances. A chain with a little time on it may not self feed like one in perfect condition. Allowing such a chain to just self feed does not provide the optimum results.

Case in point Mason is when you videoed my MOFO 460 at the GTG. That is a very strong saw that was made to look anemic!

I think Lee said it to me best … basically he puts enough pressure on the saw to make t work w/o killing it (I'm not quoting here). It is a feel for where the sweet spot is for each saw, given the current condition of the chain, even when it is not fresh.

People like Lee and Dan have impressed me with their ability to do this … and I'm sure there are others, but those two come to mind.

Nutball · Nov 8, 2019

huskyboy said:
Around 3:45 in this video should explain this a bit better for you. You get more oil at high rpm and less at low rpm. The pump only spins as fast as the rpms of the motor. Does this mean you should let your saw scream in the cut? No. Just cut normally and keep saw loaded in its powerband. If you have to lug it to cut fast then your chain isn’t good enough.

I didn't see enough from that to convince me, there could be a handful of reasons why his chain was sticky at the end, and I won't take his word for it as fact without supporting facts. I will take into consideration that maybe it does oil less, but I can't see why. If the pump gives one (for example) pulse of oil per rotation of the chain, it is 1 pulse per rotation no matter the rpm. So, the chain always sees the same amount of oil for the same distance traveled. Distance traveled affects how much surface area the chain can transfer oil onto to loose the oil. If the oiler is properly set to keep the chain lubed for the length of bar it has to travel, then it shouldn't see any less oil even at slower speeds.

I also have a timer to confirm a faster cut at slower rpm. I've tried chains of varying practical aggressiveness, and it always cuts faster in that type of wood at a slower chain speed. Most of the chains I've tested are too aggressive to bore cut with. Even when milling that same Ash, it would lock in to this slow rpm where the saw would barely run, but was cutting much faster in the process. I'd be aiming for high rpm in the cut if I was testing saws in soft wood.

RI Chevy · Nov 8, 2019

Thec saw will put more oil on a bar at 14000 RPMs than it will at 9000 RPMs.
Chain clears chips better at the RPMs where it moves freely around the bar rather than being pushed on. When you lean on a bar it only wears out bar and chain faster and puts more stress on the saw.
Its a fine line. One has to feel it and hear it ... Let the cutters do the work. Your ECHOs will be much happier.

huskyboy · Nov 8, 2019

Nutball said:
I didn't see enough from that to convince me, there could be a handful of reasons why his chain was sticky at the end, and I won't take his word for it as fact without supporting facts. I will take into consideration that maybe it does oil less, but I can't see why. If the pump gives one (for example) pulse of oil per rotation of the chain, it is 1 pulse per rotation no matter the rpm. So, the chain always sees the same amount of oil for the same distance traveled. Distance traveled affects how much surface area the chain can transfer oil onto to loose the oil. If the oiler is properly set to keep the chain lubed for the length of bar it has to travel, then it shouldn't see any less oil even at slower speeds.

I also have a timer to confirm a faster cut at slower rpm. I've tried chains of varying practical aggressiveness, and it always cuts faster in that type of wood at a slower chain speed. Most of the chains I've tested are too aggressive to bore cut with. Even when milling that same Ash, it would lock in to this slow rpm where the saw would barely run, but was cutting much faster in the process. I'd be aiming for high rpm in the cut if I was testing saws in soft wood.

No need to overthink this sir, play around with the chain... you might be surprised with the results.

lehman live edge slab · Nov 8, 2019

I’ll need to get to my service manuals later to know exact rpms used for go rating but if I recall an 029 hp is rated at like 9000 rpm with max being 12,500. So in my thinking Stihl designed this saw to run about 9000 in the cut which must be sufficiently loaded to keep from over rev damage but not so slow to cause damage from insufficient cooling or loading the clutch up causing slippage and heat that could cook your seals and bearing resulting in a blown saw.

huskyboy · Nov 8, 2019

MustangMike said:
Case in point Mason is when you videoed my MOFO 460 at the GTG. That is a very strong saw that was made to look anemic!

Completely dulled chain. Probably could have cut the time in half with a filing. If you have to push on a saw that hard to get it to cut, the chain needs attention Mike imo.

Cobby08 · Nov 8, 2019

Holy derail...

lehman live edge slab · Nov 8, 2019

Expect any less? See any 500’s at the dealer yet? Only 6-6 1/2 weeks till they aren’t arriving in 2019.

farmer steve · Nov 8, 2019

Cobby08 said:
Holy derail...

Ok,my 2 pennies. I got to run a brand new never fired 500i thanks to leadfarmer bringing one to our GTG a couple of weeks ago. We only had a 20" bar on it. After getting it primed up and started it ran fine. IMO not a whole lot of difference compared to my 462 which is stock other than weight. I'm sure after getting broke in it would be better. They did put a square ground chain on it later in the day and the guys said it was much better.

Cobby08 · Nov 8, 2019

lehman live edge slab said:
Expect any less? See any 500’s at the dealer yet? Only 6-6 1/2 weeks till they aren’t arriving in 2019.

I don't expect anything until end of January to be honest.

markds2 · May 19, 2020

I'm seriously looking at rationalising my chainsaw collection and replacing my MS661C and MS441 with an MS500i and retaining my MS261C V2 for small stuff and an MS660 (with a Cross MMWS Cylinder and HO Oiler) for my long bar work. I'm almost exclusively bucking extremely hard Australian Eucalyptus for firewood and I don't do any felling. The 500i would be mainly wearing a 28 inch ES Light bar with full comp RS chain. Good decision? what do you guys think?

porsche965 · May 19, 2020

It would be helpful to buy the 500i first before selling the 661 or 441 or both. It is nice to have a capable backup saw when needed however. I guess the 261 could come to the rescue with a skilled hand.

markds2 · May 19, 2020

porsche965 said:
It would be helpful to buy the 500i first before selling the 661 or 441 or both. It is nice to have a capable backup saw when needed however. I guess the 261 could come to the rescue with a skilled hand.

I forgot to say that I have a very original Husky 266se as well that I want to keep, so that's what I would use if I got in a jam.

Stihl MS500i

Sorta a husqvarna guy...

Here For The Long Haul!

Here For The Long Haul!

Here For The Long Haul!

Sorta a husqvarna guy...

Here For The Long Haul!

Sorta a husqvarna guy...

Mastermind Approved!

Here For The Long Haul!

Mastermind Approved!

Sorta a husqvarna guy...

Live Action

Sorta a husqvarna guy...

I’m a face down ass up guy

Live Action

outstanding in my field, 5150

I’m a face down ass up guy

Here For The Long Haul!

Pinnacle OPE Member

Here For The Long Haul!

Similar threads