Tree Monkey MS462 - PART 2

Deets066 · Dec 11, 2018

Woody said:
Here’s how to end the gutted vs non gutted debate. Get about 30-35 guys to put up $50 to get a 462 ported by brad, when finished have it shipped to Wisconsin. After all the testing the saw will be raffled off to those that contributed. So for 50 bucks, you have a really good chance at winning a 462c

That wouldn’t solve anything, actually it’d just create drama

Stump Shot · Dec 11, 2018

Woody said:
Here’s how to end the gutted vs non gutted debate. Get about 30-35 guys to put up $50 to get a 462 ported by brad, when finished have it shipped to Wisconsin. After all the testing the saw will be raffled off to those that contributed. So for 50 bucks, you have a really good chance at winning a 462c

Deets066 said:
That wouldn’t solve anything, actually it’d just create drama

Besides, the debate is over, TM ftw!

tree monkey · Dec 11, 2018

nah, I didn't win anything, just trying to help others understand strato's

XP_Slinger · Dec 11, 2018

Given the similarity in design to the 372 X-torq strato, widening the intake is likely not an option in the 462 as it will expose the strato cut outs on the piston to the intake which will cause spit back and low or no case compression because the transfers will be open to the intake. How are you gonna attack the intake Scott? Taller or lower or both? Just thinking out loud along for the ride.

Stump Shot · Dec 11, 2018

tree monkey said:
nah, I didn't win anything, just trying to help others understand strato's

... and you did, it helped me with the last details of the puzzle. See... you really won after all.

tree monkey · Dec 11, 2018

XP_Slinger said:
Given the similarity in design to the 372 X-torq strato, widening the intake is likely not an option in the 462 as it will expose the strato cut outs on the piston to the intake which will cause spit back and low case compression because the transfers will be open to the intake. How are you gonna attack the intake Scott? Taller or lower or both? Just thinking out loud along for the ride.

I just clean the port up for the first test, if this changes timing , I make note of it. maybe improve the shape of the port. match the port to the boot.
I would then widen the port if I can. if not I might try raising the roof depending on the size of the port.
then there's nothing left but timing.

with most strato's it's all about timing

XP_Slinger · Dec 11, 2018

tree monkey said:
I just clean the port up for the first test, if this changes timing , I make note of it. maybe improve the shape of the port. match the port to the boot.
I would then widen the port if I can. if not I might try raising the roof depending on the size of the port.
then there's nothing left but timing.

with most strato's it's all about timing

Yes sir, timing is definitely key with these little strato intakes. Looking forward to findings

CR888 · Dec 11, 2018

What explains a strato gutted saw performing better over stock? Does TM accept gutting them increases power or is it a 'perceived' improvement that's not proven with a stopwatch. I totally get his idea behind not wanting to charge strato ports when their inherent design function is to purge burnt gasses out the exhaust but 'why' are saws benefitting from the mod?

huskihl · Dec 11, 2018

CR888 said:
What explains a strato gutted saw performing better over stock? Does TM accept gutting them increases power or is it a 'perceived' improvement that's not proven with a stopwatch. I totally get his idea behind not wanting to charge strato ports when their inherent design function is to purge burnt gasses out the exhaust but 'why' are saws benefitting from the mod?

There's a vid a ways back. It didn't benefit from it

tree monkey · Dec 11, 2018

yes gutting the strato works, I never said it didn't. it's a lazy way of porting. why not port it the right way and get better results and a cleaner running engine.

CJ Brown · Dec 11, 2018

CR888 said:
What explains a strato gutted saw performing better over stock? Does TM accept gutting them increases power or is it a 'perceived' improvement that's not proven with a stopwatch. I totally get his idea behind not wanting to charge strato ports when their inherent design function is to purge burnt gasses out the exhaust but 'why' are saws benefitting from the mod?

One possible answer is the fact that all the mixture in a gutted starto design entering the combustion chamber is already properly mixed at the ideal ratio. In the strato design, the frsh air charge, and the rich fuel/air charge need to thoroughly mix inside the chamber in the brief period before combustion. The chances of getting the perfect fuel/air mix for the entire charge in a strato design may be less than 100%.

tree monkey · Dec 11, 2018

CJ Brown said:
One possible answer is the fact that all the mixture in a gutted starto design entering the combustion chamber is already properly mixed at the ideal ratio. In the strato design, the frsh air charge, and the rich fuel/air charge need to thoroughly mix inside the chamber in the brief period before combustion. The chances of getting the perfect fuel/air mix for the entire charge in a strato design may be less than 100%.

does that happen with fuel injected cars?

CJ Brown · Dec 11, 2018

tree monkey said:
does that happen with fuel injected cars?

That's an entirely different concept, with more than one type of injection, along with different injector and nozzle designs.

tree monkey · Dec 11, 2018

CJ Brown said:
That's an entirely different concept, with more than one type of injection, along with different injector and nozzle designs.

the fuel is delivered late in the stroke and still mixes, the same goes for a strato engine

CJ Brown · Dec 11, 2018

tree monkey said:
the fuel is delivered late in the stroke and still mixes, the same goes for a strato engine

Only on a direct injected engine, and uses a nozzle that sprays the combustion chamber evenly. Not trying to argue (especially with someone with your experience) - just thought I would throw out an idea to discuss. I'm not even agreeing a gutted strato design inherently produces more power. I'm just saying that if it does, incomplete mixing could be a reason why.

tree monkey · Dec 11, 2018

i'm not arguing either, just trying to explain how a strato works

Deets066 · Dec 11, 2018

tree monkey said:
i'm not arguing either, just trying to explain how a strato works

Still?

CJ Brown · Dec 11, 2018

tree monkey said:
i'm not arguing either, just trying to explain how a strato works

I think you have explained it very well, I have certainly gained a much better understanding in this thread.

huskihl · Dec 11, 2018

Deets066 said:
Still?

Stihl

tree monkey · Dec 11, 2018

how does the fresh air enter the engine through the strato's?

Tree Monkey MS462 - PART 2

AKA Deetsey

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They’re Just Saws

Disciple of Monkey's

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They’re Just Saws

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I learned it from a hockey card...

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I learned it from a hockey card...

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I learned it from a hockey card...

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AKA Deetsey

I learned it from a hockey card...

Muh fingers look really big

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