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How much preventative replacements on 200T while saw is open?

salix

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Hi all, my 200T had a piece of crankcase torn out by the chain. The oil reservoir is now leak. Tried to JB weld it from the outside but wouldn't seal the hole. The saw keeps leaking oil when turned sideways chain down.
I've a new OEM crankcase halve, a gasket set and a new oil hose. The gasket set has two new seals. So I intend to replace the seal on the flywheel side as well. The crankcase already has a new bearing and seal factory installed.

The saw still runs fine.

Now that saw is going to be fully torn down what else do you advise to replace?
Bearing on the flywheel side?
Piston bearing? Piston rings?
Rebuild carb?
Replace ...?

Any suggestions are welcome. This a personal which I would like to keep in good shape for sentimental reasons.

TIA
 

Dub11

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Welcome! And @Lone Wolf would be the best to answer this. But if it was me I would replace all rubber and including the intake boot. I here they can rip easily. And maybe piston rings to.
 

salix

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Thank you @Dub11 and @Chainsaw Jim for your input.
So both crank bearings. How about the piston bearing?

Does anybody if part 1129 358 7702 (fuel line) also includes the hose for the tank vent? Both lines come out through a single grommet in the tank. Or is part 1129 350 5850 (tank vent) the complete set with the hose and the vent which one must separately install through the fuel line grommet

I'll wait for some more comment before ordering parts. For the carb gaskets should I order OEM or is that one part I can save some money by ordering aftermarket? The bearings, seals and rubbers are all going to be oem.

This is going to be a pretty expensive saw with all the oem parts and some new specialty tools, but for such a heirloom money shouldn't be an issue.
 

Wonkydonkey

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If you know how much use it has had and how old ?.

this would help.. some things on a 200t are a pain in the rectum for changing so changing while apart is worth while.

You could measure the ring gap in the bore, although you could brake a ring removing it. The piston bearing, if you think it’s had a lot of hrs then while your in there change it, but I would try to feel if there’s any play/free movement
But Impulse line and carb boot is woth it
And check av rubbers


Just a heads up @Chainsaw Jim we (English)&(prolly the Dutch as well) don’t have exhaust screens, it’s mostly alwasys to wet

But anyways if your unsure you can always ask and post a pic or two

Cheers
 

salix

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It's from 2010 but never dropped and still runs nice.
The AV rubbers, I thought about that but just now I read in the ms 200t replacement carb thread That worn/weak AV rubbers are a known cause for torn input boots

I would like to measure anything but my service manual doesn't specify any (wear) limits. Only "if worn replace". But nothing like with a large engine which specifies at how much wear one should change from piston ring set 1 to 2 to 3 for example. So if anybody has dimension or tolerances for pistonrings, pistons etc I would be very interested. I'm not in the chainsaw repair business so my reference frame is somewhat limited. I can't eyeball or feel if any of these components are worn. Rubber parts are different.

@Wonkydonkey, don't get me started about the weather. What a BLEEP BLEEP winter, 3 months of non stop rain, several major storms one of which rip part of the roof of my house. However I think the UK had even worse weather than us in the Netherlands. And yes my saw doesn't have screen.
 

Lone Wolf

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Hi all, my 200T had a piece of crankcase torn out by the chain. The oil reservoir is now leak. Tried to JB weld it from the outside but wouldn't seal the hole. The saw keeps leaking oil when turned sideways chain down.
I've a new OEM crankcase halve, a gasket set and a new oil hose. The gasket set has two new seals. So I intend to replace the seal on the flywheel side as well. The crankcase already has a new bearing and seal factory installed.

The saw still runs fine.

Now that saw is going to be fully torn down what else do you advise to replace?
Bearing on the flywheel side?
Piston bearing? Piston rings?
Rebuild carb?
Replace ...?

Any suggestions are welcome. This a personal which I would like to keep in good shape for sentimental reasons.

TIA
OEM piston
OEM seals
OEM impulse line
OEM fuel line
cyl base gasket
inspect intake boot
pressure and vac test when together
inspect antivibe mounts and replace if cracked
rebuild or replace carb
new gas filter
 

salix

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@Lone Wolf , thank for chiming in. I've got the OEM gasket set so all gaskets are included and going to be replaced.
I've got the old Zama C1Q-S32 carb without the accelerator pump. I removed the two covers and everything looks very clean and shiny. Probably because it mostly ran on Stihl Motomix. Even the needle doesn't have a ring at the tip. Should I still disassemble it entirely and put it in the ultrasonic? Or only replace the gaskets?

You also mention the piston. Do mean that one should always replace the piston? Or only when worn? But I've got no idea what "worn" is for these engines. I know what damaged is, scratches or worse. I don't even know much compression they should have when new, current compression is max 125psi / 8.6bar.

Should I use any compound between the metal and gaskets (cylinder and crankcase)? Or mount them dry?
 
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DND 9000

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Does anybody if part 1129 358 7702 (fuel line) also includes the hose for the tank vent? Both lines come out through a single grommet in the tank. Or is part 1129 350 5850 (tank vent) the complete set with the hose and the vent which one must separately install through the fuel line grommet

The 1129 358 7702 fuel hose isn`t allowed to be used on the MS 200T anymore and was replaced by 1129 358 7705. That doesn`t include the vent line. Depending on the tank housing you have (old version or the newer version) the right hoses have to be used. I think you have the newer housing. The newer MS 200T fuel hose with vent line is 1129 350 3600. For that you also need the tank vent 0000 350 5802.
 

salix

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@DND 9000 , danke sehr! My 200T is from 2010. So if I understand correctly I need to order the 1129 350 3600 which is a grommet with two hoses (fuel and vent) and the tank vent (like a miniature spark plug cap) 0000 350 5802. Here're some pics of the fuel line and tank.
IMG_7192.JPG IMG_7193.JPG
The carnage to the crankcase by the chain, screwdriver is in the hole to the oil tank.IMG_7190.JPG

Do you happen to have a more recent parts list and diagram with these kind of changes?
 

DND 9000

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@salix check your inbox for an english list.
 
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Lone Wolf

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@Lone Wolf , thank for chiming in. I've got the OEM gasket set so all gaskets are included and going to be replaced.
I've got the old Zama C1Q-S32 carb without the accelerator pump. I removed the two covers and everything looks very clean and shiny. Probably because it mostly ran on Stihl Motomix. Even the needle doesn't have a ring at the tip. Should I still disassemble it entirely and put it in the ultrasonic? Or only replace the gaskets?

You also mention the piston. Do mean that one should always replace the piston? Or only when worn? But I've got no idea what "worn" is for these engines. I know what damaged is, scratches or worse. I don't even know much compression they should have when new, current compression is max 125kpa / 18psi.

Should I use any compound between the metal and gaskets (cylinder and crankcase)? Or mount them dry?
Better to always replace the piston,no compound is usually needed, 160 PSI is the usual good compression on a rebuild that is in good condition. Dont count on that carb working properly either.
 

Al Smith

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Everybody has an opinion ,here's mine .What generally kills these little things is bad seals because of bad bearings .I'd replace all of them,OEM .If it has good compression I wouldn't be real concerned about the rings .
If you do replace the rings keep in mind the cylinder is no longer perfectly round so it will take time for the rings to seat but they will in time .FWIW I've had a bunch of them apart and have never found one yet with low compression .
Set the carb a little rich and run it like you stole it ,flog it like a rented mule .Half dozen or so tanks of fuel and tune it for power .
 

salix

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@Lone Wolf , my bad I had the units mixed up. The compression is 125psi max. (I've corrected my earlier post) Do still recommend another piston? Can I use a Meteor instead of a Stihl and keep the original cylinder?
What do you mean with
Dont count on that carb working properly either
? You mean that it's still dirty inside? It isn't an accelerator model.
So you recommend to mount all seals dry. Do you know where the Dirko HT sealant was originally used? I always thought it was used to "glue" the gaskets to the metal parts.

@Al Smith , my oem clutch side crankcase (which was damaged see pic above) has already a new bearing and seal installed. And the gasket set includes two seals. So I only need one more bearing for the flywheel side. Whats your opinion about the 125psi compression?

The saw in it's current state showed reasonable vacuum and pressure results. I'll do some formal tests tomorrow, to compare before and after.

Everybody thank you for your warm welcome and help. I'm afraid I'm not done picking your brains. But I hope soon I can show a fully restored 200T , saved from the junkpile.
 

Lone Wolf

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Salix, 125 PSI is very low what did the piston look like that was in there? If scored up a new cyl would work wonders.Yes you can use a Meteor piston with good results but I trust OEM more. You can put some sealer on the seals when installing but not always needed. Buy the seal installing tool for that saw so you dont wreck the new seals putting them in they are expensive .
 

salix

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Hi all here are some pics of the complete tear down.

All "annular buffers" aka vibration dampers were completely destroyed. The impulse line was stiff like a steel hydraulic line. So I'll add them to my replacement list. But the rubber input manifold was still pretty ok. Not even a hairline crack, just not so flexible like a new rubber fuel line.
The cylinder looks fine to me, no grooves no glazing just normal use. The piston itself also looks fine to me. The top piston ring is a bit thin, it really has play. If anybody know the thickness a new oem piston ring that would be very helpful. I also have no idea about the condition of the piston pin and bearing.
The crankshaft looks fine to me, all mating surfaces are ok and so are the bearing journals.
The inside of the crankcase has some discoloration, but I think that's to be expected.

IMG_7205.JPG IMG_7206.JPG IMG_7209.JPG IMG_7212.JPG IMG_7216.JPG
My diy exhaust sealing plate (part no 1129 999 0001) worked like a charm, I wanted to know how the leak tests performed before and after. It held both vacuum and pressure more than specs.
Also note the crank case split tool (part no 1129 999 0003) did it's work excellent. No prying and tapping. Just like the $$$ service tool. A little tension on the spindle and pop ... both halves splitted.

@Lone Wolf , I hope the pictures give you some idea. If you need bettter quality pictures to assess the condition of the various parts please let me know.

Thank you all for your time and feedback and have a nice weekend.
 
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Lone Wolf

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Hi all here are some pics of the complete tear down.

All "annular buffers" aka vibration dampers were completely destroyed. The impulse line was stiff like a steel hydraulic line. So I'll add them to my replacement list. But the rubber input manifold was still pretty ok. Not even a hairline crack, just not so flexible like a new rubber fuel line.
The cylinder looks fine to me, no grooves no glazing just normal use. The piston itself also looks fine to me. The top piston is a bit thin, it really has play. If anybody know the thickness a new oem piston ring that would be very helpful. I also have no idea about the condition of the piston pin and bearing.
The crankshaft looks fine to me, all mating surfaces are ok and so are the bearing journals.
The inside of the crankcase has some discoloration, but I think that's to be expected.

View attachment 128045 View attachment 128046 View attachment 128047 View attachment 128048 View attachment 128049
My diy exhaust sealing plate (part no 1129 999 0001) worked like a charm, I wanted to know how the leak tests performed before and after. It held both vacuum and pressure more than specs.
Also note the crank case split tool (part no 1129 9999 0003) did it's work excellent. No prying and tapping. Just like the $$$ service tool. A little tension on the spindle and pop ... both halves splitted.

@Lone Wolf , I hope the pictures give you some idea. If you need bettter quality pictures to assess the condition of the various parts please let me know.

Thank you all for your time and feedback and have a nice weekend.
Looks like you have a good cyl assuming the other side of the piston is a s nice as the pic .
 

salix

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Washed all parts. Made a final parts list. Unless folks here recommend otherwise I'll leave the piston in place. I don't look forward messing with these C-rings, especially reinstalling them. There's no noticeable play in the bearings. But I'll replace the rings with new rings. Does anybody have a suggestion for piston rings? I can buy either Caber or oem. These cylinder and piston pics are very difficult to take.

One last parts question, the current carb is a C1Q-32A (non accelerator). Should I replace that for a better model if that even exists? Or just clean it and replace gaskets?

Now something else, I'm planning for the assembly and was looking at the various compounds and glues spec'ed in the service manual. One of the products is Loctite 649, which is a adhesive for cylindrical parts like bearings. But Stihl uses it for muffer-to-cylinder and the "annular buffer rear" . They also spec loctite 272 (high strength & high temp threadlocker) for all kinds of low temp low strength parts like the oil pump. Could somebody please have a look at section 3.5 off the service manual of a 200T and make some sense out the used products and their use.

Thanks as always.
 

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Lone Wolf

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Go with a new piston after all the work you are doing.
Get the seal installer or take a gamble on breaking them.
Yamabond,Hondabond ,Motoseal or Dirko will all work for sealing.
Wait and see if the carb even works if it dont buy a replacement.
Nuff said!
 

salix

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@Lone Wolf Ok, I'll buy another piston set. But I'm not going oem on this because it's almost three times as expensive as the meteor piston set. Which is as I understand not bad. Any tips on assembling these C-rings for the piston pin?
I have the seal installer and the sleeve as well. The whole saw including the carb was running just fine until the chain broke and toke a bite out of the crank case :crybaby2:But now it gets a total overhaul which with some forum help might even succeed.
 
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