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064, 066 MS650, MS660 info thread

Willard

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Just an added note of interest.
The MS661 has started out as series 1144 where the MS660 left off as 1122.
Will be interesting what Stihl has in store for the progression of the 1144 series.
 

PogoInTheWoods

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I'm familiar with the country of origin designation but have never heard any logical explanation for the series of numbers that follow. Sure doesn't look like any rhyme or reason between your two '86 case numbers except made in Germany and an ascending number sequence as a manufacturing number. I've also heard they occasionally change serial numbering randomly for production reasons and the numbering is for internal tracking and point of sale documentation purposes only -- with nothing discernable to the general public for identifying date of origin like Husky and others. Pretty much stuck with 'eras' for basic production dating with model change and tech bulletin dates as the only source of narrowing it down any further.

Thought maybe you had the 'secret code' considering the parts ID stuff. Curious as to where that was obtained, also.
 

Willard

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In 1989 when I worked for Stihl out of the Edmonton branch, Hans Peter Stihl popped in for a visit .
Myself, Hans Peter, my branch manager Steve Meriam and our boss Fred Whyte, we all went for supper at the Sawmill steakhouse.
We shared lots of information as I remember we talked a little about date codes on saws as I just explained, which I totally forgot until a few days ago when I read some info from Cut4fun's posts.Lol

But I remember a little bit about the different series serial #'s as the yearly factory production run which goes into thousands of units are ID'd along with each part having its own date stamp with date code to the month and year as I pointed out earlier.

There's other symbols and codes next to the 12 month clock symbol which tells the exact time and the initials of the assemblers and quality control.

Sawchain had for years 2 letter intials of the guys on the assembly line stamped on random cutters.
Any "secret codes" it's all French to me. Nothing I have any need for.
 
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PogoInTheWoods

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So Stihl saws are just wayward sons from different eras, I guess.Wish I knew the mfr. date of my early 066. 'Cause you know how the Husky crowd is..., have birthday parties for their 372's and 288's..., because they can! LOL
 

Willard

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So Stihl saws are just wayward sons from different eras, I guess.Wish I knew the mfr. date of my early 066. 'Cause you know how the Husky crowd is..., have birthday parties for their 372's and 288's..., because they can! LOL
Yeah those guys can party for a whole week knowing what week their saw was born Lol.
Just pulled the cover off my 8th week of 2012 562XP and also see date clocks.
20180321_144820.jpg
 
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Davey83

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It may be mentioned here somewhere already but I have a friends 066 with the 1122 400 1307 coil that has failed, he also has a dead ms660 with a good coil and it has the 1314 coil, can I swap this with no issues?
Thanks in advance.
 

PogoInTheWoods

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My understanding would suggest no. 1307 was the early one prone to problems and used the aluminum 1209 or 1209/1214 flywheels. The 1314 coil uses the 1217 poly flywheel. The best choice would probably be the 0000-400-1300 universal unlimited coil if indeed the flywheel is a 1209 or 1209/1214 flywheel.

The various combinations of flywheels and coils are listed on page one.
 

Davey83

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My understanding would suggest no. 1307 was the early one prone to problems and used the aluminum 1209 or 1209/1214 flywheels. The 1314 coil uses the 1217 poly flywheel. The best choice would probably be the 0000-400-1300 universal unlimited coil if indeed the flywheel is a 1209 or 1209/1214 flywheel.

The various combinations of flywheels and coils are listed on page one.
I see your point but would the aluminium flywheel make any difference to how the 1314 coil “picks up” ?
 

PogoInTheWoods

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Yes. There's a reason certain coils are matched with certain flywheels and that's it (how it 'picks up'..., or more accurately, when it 'picks up'). That's how the appropriate timing is established. You could obviously give the mismatch a try but I would be surprised if the results were worthwhile. The 0000-400-1300 coil is a very common coil used on quite a few saws including the 029/MS290, 310, 390....and you can get an aftermarket version for $15 ~ $20 if you can't find a used one cheap (or free). If you actually take the time to review the previous pages you will clearly see what is designed to work with what. Or take my word for it..., after you identify the flywheel to make sure it's either a 1209 or 1209/1214 (which would have a dual keyway). Your other obvious option is to pull the flywheel off the dead MS660 along with the 1314 coil as a properly matched setup and be done with it..., provided the 066 is new enough to have the same crank. There are notes on the cranks..., also on page one of this thread.

If it were me I'd go with the 1300 coil solution and not look back.

Good luck with it.
 
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Willard

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It may be mentioned here somewhere already but I have a friends 066 with the 1122 400 1307 coil that has failed, he also has a dead ms660 with a good coil and it has the 1314 coil, can I swap this with no issues?
Thanks in advance.
The 1307 coil is from a early red light. The 660 crank is thicker with bigger flywheel nut so the 660 flywheel won't fit the smaller crank 066.
Crank end got bigger in '96 066 poly wheel.
 

Willard

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Got a upgrade 0000 400 1300 on my red lite replacing the 1307. Not sure what the upgrade flywheel # is.
 

PogoInTheWoods

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The 1307 coil is from a early red light.

Pretty sure it was used on all 066's unti serial number x 31 067 163 in '94 with the 'Red Light' simply being an option?

Got a upgrade 0000 400 1300 on my red lite replacing the 1307. Not sure what the upgrade flywheel # is.

Ideally would be a 1209, 1209/1214 dual keyway (using the 'x' slot), or a even a 1203 -- all assuming not using the heated handle and eliminating the generator. Looks like a 1216 flywheel would be the desired solution for a 1300 coil to keep the heated handle setup, though there seems to have been four flywheel variants and two different generators for the heated handle arrangement.

Interesting stuff and fun to research. Definitely a thread to bookmark!
 

Willard

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Pretty sure it was used on all 066's unti serial number x 31 067 163 in '94 with the 'Red Light' simply being an option?



Ideally would be a 1209, 1209/1214 dual keyway (using the 'x' slot), or a even a 1203 -- all assuming not using the heated handle and eliminating the generator. Looks like a 1216 flywheel would be the desired solution for a 1300 coil to keep the heated handle setup, though there seems to have been four flywheel variants and two different generators for the heated handle arrangement.

Interesting stuff and fun to research. Definitely a thread to bookmark!
When I said "early red light" I meant the whole red light series .
What I remember was by 1993 Stihl upgraded the 066 RL with a 0000 400 1300 and new flywheel eliminating the LED light. That was the end of that feature.
I'm taking my flywheel off now as I'm tearing my 066Mag down for rebuild.
Mine has a generator under the flywheel not for heated handles but for it's heated carb (Canadian version). Surprised it wasn't called Canadian/Alaskan/Russian version:)
 

Willard

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My flywheel is the 1215 using the X slot.
Got the '92 066Mag in pieces . First time its had its cylinder off and P/C is clean with no scratches . Always ran it on Stihl Premium at 40:1. And always had a clean air filter in it . Never bothered with the HD filter because I wanted to save weight and bulk like my older 064's.
My P/C pics show how clean it stayed . Black stuff in cylinder crown is the residue off the PTO bearing breaking down. Stuff actually bridged the spark plug electrode.

Putting in new main bearings and going to put a 064 flywheel on it along with the 064 slim rewind housing. 20180322_203436.jpg 20180322_172222.jpg 20180322_162035.jpg
 

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Willard

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So on my side bench here I have this 1996 066 with the first year heavy crank and poly flywheel and decomp valve.
Got this saw free a couple of years ago from a tree work customer that I did work for.
Has sat for 20 years with stale gas in it. Needs all new rubber parts but in solid new mechanical condition .
So I'm rebuilding it and it will handle 28"-36" b/c for my tree service seeing I sold my 395XP.

Last pic is my '92 066 Mag red light all in pieces ready for rebuild with new mains. This saw will also run in my tree service but with no dogs, only the smooth bumper I'm holding.
It will be sporting the narrow 064 flywheel and rewind housing and wearing 18"-20"-25" b/c.
So with this setup cooling is not an issue with the smaller 064 flywheel.
When I finish with it think of this 066 Mag as a 91cc MS460 with a heavy bottom end.

20180323_120514.jpg 20180323_115037.jpg
 
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Stihlms

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So on my side bench here I have this 1996 066 with the first year heavy crank and poly flywheel and decomp valve.
Got this saw free a couple of years ago from a tree work customer that I did work for.
Has sat for 20 years with stale gas in it. Needs all new rubber parts but in solid new mechanical condition .
So I'm rebuilding it and it will handle 28"-36" b/c for my tree service seeing I sold my 395XP.

Last pic is my '92 066 Mag red light all in pieces ready for rebuild with new mains. This saw will also run in my tree service but with no dogs, only the smooth bumper I'm holding.
It will be sporting the narrow 064 flywheel and rewind housing and wearing 18"-20"-25" b/c.
So with this setup cooling is not an issue with the smaller 064 flywheel.
When I finish with it think of this 066 Mag as a 91cc MS460 with a heavy bottom end.

View attachment 117312 View attachment 117313
 

Stihlms

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So on my side bench here I have this 1996 066 with the first year heavy crank and poly flywheel and decomp valve.
Got this saw free a couple of years ago from a tree work customer that I did work for.
Has sat for 20 years with stale gas in it. Needs all new rubber parts but in solid new mechanical condition .
So I'm rebuilding it and it will handle 28"-36" b/c for my tree service seeing I sold my 395XP.

Last pic is my '92 066 Mag red light all in pieces ready for rebuild with new mains. This saw will also run in my tree service but with no dogs, only the smooth bumper I'm holding.
It will be sporting the narrow 064 flywheel and rewind housing and wearing 18"-20"-25" b/c.
So with this setup cooling is not an issue with the smaller 064 flywheel.
When I finish with it think of this 066 Mag as a 91cc MS460 with a heavy bottom end.

View attachment 117312 View attachment 117313
I always wanted to know what that smooth spike is used for.
 

Stihlms

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Stihl Series 1122 Ignition Systems V2.0 07.28.15

064 1986-1997 066 1988-2003 MS660 2004-2014 MS650 2005-2012

Earliest illustrated parts list noted where known.


Flywheels – aluminum with single keyway unless noted.

1122 400 1201A – 064 for use with Bosch ignition, unlimited coils

1122 400 1202 – 066W, MS660 unlimited, new thicker style for heated handle and carb

generator, POLYMER

1122 400 1203 - 064, 064R for use with limited coils 1303 [92.12ipl] (gap of .2 to .3mm)

1122 400 1203 (double keyway) - 064, 064R for use with limited or unlimited coils

Keyway X or B is furthest clockwise for unlimited coils

Keyway P is furthest counterclockwise for limited coils

1122 400 1203/1204 - marked with both but only one keyway, normally limited

1122 400 1204 – 064 – limited with retarded start timing (a’ la Mastermind’s pic)

1122 400 1204 (single keyway) – 064 for use with limited coils ONLY

1122 400 1204 (double keyway) – 064

Keyway X or B is furthest clockwise for unlimited coils

Keyway P is furthest counterclockwise for limited coils

1122 400 1206 – 064 unlimited for use with Bosch ignition and generator 3500 [87.1ipl]

1122 400 1207 - 064W limited for use with 1303

and generator 4000 [92.12ipl] and generator 3500 [95.01ipl]

1122 400 1209 – 066 for limited coils

1122 400 1209/1214 - 066 marked with both numbers but only one keyway

1122 400 1209/1214 – 066 double keyway

Keyway X or B is furthest clockwise for unlimited coils

Keyway P is furthest counterclockwise for limited coils

1122 400 1210 – 066 for limited coils with generator

1122 400 1214 - 066, 066M unlimited with larger big end bearing from early 1995 [95.01ipl] **

1122 400 1215 – 066 redeye

1122 400 1216 - 066W unlimited for generator with larger big end bearing early 1995 [95.01ipl]

1122 400 1217P – 066 unlimited Polymer pre 1996

1122 400 1217 – MS650, MS660 (same as 1217p maybe)

1122 400 1218 – 066W unlimited Polymer thin style for heated handle generator


Generators

1118 400 4000 – 064W [92.12ipl]

1122 400 3500 – 064W [87.1ipl], 066W [95.01ipl]

1122 400 3501 – 066W, MS660

1122 400 3502 – 066W, MS660 (circa 1999) two windings for carb and handle heat


Ignition Coils

0000 400 1300 – 066 Lida standard unlimited “short” mount **

0000 400 1303 – 066 2nd Lida EY-V unlimited

0000 400 1305 – 066 Lida Standard unlimited

1122 400 1300 – 064, MS640 unlimited, Bosch E1-V “dogleg” mount [87.1ipl]

1122 400 1303 – 064 Prufex CDIC limited (12,000 RPM) Prufex [92.12ipl]

1122 400 1307 – 066 CDIC-A limited (13,500 RPM) including 066 red eye model

1122 400 1311 – 064/066 original Lida EY-V unlimited, easier starting, short life span [95.01ipl]

installed starting X 31 067 164 on 064 and 066

1122 400 1312 - 066 poly flywheel three screw mount

1122 400 1314 – 066, MS650, MS660 Lida standard unlimited two screw mount


Trigger Units

No number shown - 064 September 1987 to mar 3rd 1991 [92.12ipl]


Important notes:


** - these items are widely available as good quality aftermarket components


1994 –

066 after X 29 588 002 new crankshaft with better bearing and cage

064/066 after X 31 067 164 new EY-V coil and unlimited flywheel


1995 -

066 Magnum USA model only OSHA noise reduction changes from # X 31 980 509.

066 first decompression valve # X 32 231 689.

064/066 after # X 31 815 798 crankcases have 4 mounting holes for brake cover instead of 3.


1996 -

066 after # X 33 917 066 all of the following - larger big end bearing, longer crankshaft with different ignition taper and larger threads, new crankcase, lightweight poly flywheel 1122-400-1217, new unlimited coil 0000 400 1303,


1997 –

064/066 after X 33 459 523 first plastic name badge

064/066 after x 35 661 524 new style tank valve/tank housing

064/066 after X 36 262 047 new oil-less HD air filter

064/066 after X 38 139 451 another new tank vent


1998 –

066 after X 39 176 186 EPA certified, limiter caps on WJ-69 carb, new cylinder timing,

Smaller exhaust openings


2002-

MS660 introduced


View attachment 6450 View attachment 6451 View attachment 6452 View attachment 6455 View attachment 6456
Thanks Dave for all the good information this thread.
 

PogoInTheWoods

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Good question. Doesn't seem to be a 1314 included for comparison in the pics earlier in the thread. 'Course if the saw is original with the correct flywheel, that should help since there will (should?) only be so many possible combinations from the factory.

Maybe someone will post a couple pics showing any obvious distinctions between the two. Both are Japanese Iida coils if I'm not mistaken.
 
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