- Local time
- 3:01 AM
- User ID
- 1377
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2016
- Messages
- 31,064
- Reaction score
- 194,182
- Location
- Northwoods of Wisconsin
FarmerTec Huztl MS440 Chainsaw Copy Kits
- Thread starter BedfordT
- Start date
afleetcommand
Pinnacle OPE Member
Enough with the "cracker" jokes! 
( Alabama roots here...)
( Alabama roots here...)
Gentleman
Pinnacle OPE Member
- Local time
- 4:01 AM
- User ID
- 1
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2015
- Messages
- 947
- Reaction score
- 4,438
- Location
- Daytona Beach, Florida
That's the same guy who bought 'G' clips from us and called complaining that they did not have enough 'G' to them.Apparently he is growing his base of "disciples" as he calles them....
Gentleman
Pinnacle OPE Member
- Local time
- 4:01 AM
- User ID
- 1
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2015
- Messages
- 947
- Reaction score
- 4,438
- Location
- Daytona Beach, Florida
There's hundreds of them in China. Same saws, different colors. None with EPA certificate so they can be exported to the USA.
afleetcommand
Pinnacle OPE Member
Hence the "kits"..
- Local time
- 4:01 AM
- User ID
- 297
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2015
- Messages
- 5,189
- Reaction score
- 34,122
- Location
- Central Ohio
OSHA certifications too
noise level at a specified distance, pollution level and chain brake testing that is essentially tapping the bar tip to a solid object at a specific very small force and the brake must activate within 1/5 of a second or some such
Dave
noise level at a specified distance, pollution level and chain brake testing that is essentially tapping the bar tip to a solid object at a specific very small force and the brake must activate within 1/5 of a second or some such
Dave
stihl_head1982
Here long time
- Local time
- 4:01 AM
- User ID
- 168
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2015
- Messages
- 4,152
- Reaction score
- 14,539
- Location
- USA
Apparently he is growing his base of "disciples" as he calles them....
Time to move on.......
After reading a whole thread to try to catch up on the banter -- I must say the responses were quite surprising. I've been working on saws for over a decade. Some of the presumptuous replies raised my eye brows. Did you get the same feel for how some of the guys are coming across. (Just another reason I migrated over here. Its hard when you watch the video and this guy admits its his first build -- then begins to kick some veteran saw builders and even porters to the curb with a steel toed Chinese boot
).
stihl_head1982
Here long time
- Local time
- 4:01 AM
- User ID
- 168
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2015
- Messages
- 4,152
- Reaction score
- 14,539
- Location
- USA
One of the things mentioned in the kit thread was no "spark arrestor" screens in the mufflers. Can you answer whether those are illegal to import as well? Many of the real cheap mufflers on Ebay have no spark arrestor element at all. I figured you would know.
afleetcommand
Pinnacle OPE Member
Question is anyone going to engage with those 62cc saws? I think it would be fun to see one with a full MMWS or Snellerized detail twisting at 16K..:0 Would make for a good video I think one way or the other!
- Local time
- 4:01 AM
- User ID
- 360
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2015
- Messages
- 22,532
- Reaction score
- 143,408
- Location
- East Jordan, MI
I've got an MS361 that I got from DDave this summer. I hope to have it ported by spring. It'll be fun to see how well it holds up
Gentleman
Pinnacle OPE Member
- Local time
- 4:01 AM
- User ID
- 1
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2015
- Messages
- 947
- Reaction score
- 4,438
- Location
- Daytona Beach, Florida
I'm not sure what is all involved in the EPA regulations. It probably includes the spark arrestor.
Spike60
Here For The Long Haul!
- Local time
- 4:01 AM
- User ID
- 835
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2016
- Messages
- 1,916
- Reaction score
- 16,435
- Location
- Ulster County, NY
Oh yeah, believe me, I get it. Certainly understand how it works being in the industry myself. None of those saws have passed any of the tests that you and Dave are mentioning. Obviously, they don't even take the test!. Never the less, some of these saws are being sold to end users. I've had guys walk in the store with cloned 365's. Like the Kingpark 58 cc saw, they are finding their way into the US. Shipped direct to the end user; hear no evil, see no evil. Probably little risk to the buyer once the package arrives. Kind of like driving to the next state to buy fireworks.
The kits are somewhat different, but not all that different. Probably skirts the rules, but............ a saw is a saw. Whether bought assembled or as a kit, the saw lacks all necessary certifications. And if someone is getting a box from China for themselves with a saw in it, whether it's assmbled or not.............A, how different is it really, and B, who even knows about it. One of the clone 365's I saw, the guy even brought in the box it was shipped in. "chainsaw parts- aprox $50 value". So, the people shipping these things know they need to slide them past customs. Everyone involved knows it's not on the up and up, but guys like saws and we're having fun.
But the opportunists aren't all in China. Goofs like Bed Tee, and others who see an opportunity to build and then sell these kits are opening a serious can of worms for themselves. They are now the "manufacturer", and they assume all of the liabilities involved. Both in the lack of proper certifications, as well as the liability for serious injury by a saw user. As a Husky/Jonny dealer, I'm under the umbrella of their legal certifications and protection. Anyone selling the kit saws is completely on their own.
Don't get me wrong. These saws are a new and different thing, cheap fun, and pure entertainment for anyone in the saw hobby. I'm not trying to shoot any of it down. But everyone playing in this arena should be aware of the realities involved.
Gentleman
Pinnacle OPE Member
- Local time
- 4:01 AM
- User ID
- 1
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2015
- Messages
- 947
- Reaction score
- 4,438
- Location
- Daytona Beach, Florida
100% true.
Even with the spare parts from China, our insurance company said that we are considered the manufacturer.
afleetcommand
Pinnacle OPE Member
Oh yeah, believe me, I get it. Certainly understand how it works being in the industry myself. None of those saws have passed any of the tests that you and Dave are mentioning. Obviously, they don't even take the test!. Never the less, some of these saws are being sold to end users. I've had guys walk in the store with cloned 365's. Like the Kingpark 58 cc saw, they are finding their way into the US. Shipped direct to the end user; hear no evil, see no evil. Probably little risk to the buyer once the package arrives. Kind of like driving to the next state to buy fireworks.
The kits are somewhat different, but not all that different. Probably skirts the rules, but............ a saw is a saw. Whether bought assembled or as a kit, the saw lacks all necessary certifications. And if someone is getting a box from China for themselves with a saw in it, whether it's assmbled or not.............A, how different is it really, and B, who even knows about it. One of the clone 365's I saw, the guy even brought in the box it was shipped in. "chainsaw parts- aprox $50 value". So, the people shipping these things know they need to slide them past customs. Everyone involved knows it's not on the up and up, but guys like saws and we're having fun.
But the opportunists aren't all in China. Goofs like Bed Tee, and others who see an opportunity to build and then sell these kits are opening a serious can of worms for themselves. They are now the "manufacturer", and they assume all of the liabilities involved. Both in the lack of proper certifications, as well as the liability for serious injury by a saw user. As a Husky/Jonny dealer, I'm under the umbrella of their legal certifications and protection. Anyone selling the kit saws is completely on their own.
Don't get me wrong. These saws are a new and different thing, cheap fun, and pure entertainment for anyone in the saw hobby. I'm not trying to shoot any of it down. But everyone playing in this arena should be aware of the realities involved.
Think saw repair is now getting more interesting than actual saw sales again....always going feel that 800lbs liability gorrilla. Doing the repairs the dealer(s) have that covered.
Spike60
Here For The Long Haul!
- Local time
- 4:01 AM
- User ID
- 835
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2016
- Messages
- 1,916
- Reaction score
- 16,435
- Location
- Ulster County, NY
Nothing to worry about if you have a real brand like Jonsered. You'd be under the same umbrella as me. But those farmer tec saws.............
Even just with repairs, there are times when you have to think. Sometimes a guy will come in and tell you not to fix a chain brake, or a busted side cover on a 372 with the sprocket exposed. Gotta force the issue in those situations. If it's an older saw and you can't get the parts to fix a chain brake, note that on the customer invoice. Just little things to cover your butt.
- Local time
- 4:01 AM
- User ID
- 568
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2016
- Messages
- 32,114
- Reaction score
- 182,360
- Location
- Wv
Absolutely agree.Oh yeah, believe me, I get it. Certainly understand how it works being in the industry myself. None of those saws have passed any of the tests that you and Dave are mentioning. Obviously, they don't even take the test!. Never the less, some of these saws are being sold to end users. I've had guys walk in the store with cloned 365's. Like the Kingpark 58 cc saw, they are finding their way into the US. Shipped direct to the end user; hear no evil, see no evil. Probably little risk to the buyer once the package arrives. Kind of like driving to the next state to buy fireworks.
The kits are somewhat different, but not all that different. Probably skirts the rules, but............ a saw is a saw. Whether bought assembled or as a kit, the saw lacks all necessary certifications. And if someone is getting a box from China for themselves with a saw in it, whether it's assmbled or not.............A, how different is it really, and B, who even knows about it. One of the clone 365's I saw, the guy even brought in the box it was shipped in. "chainsaw parts- aprox $50 value". So, the people shipping these things know they need to slide them past customs. Everyone involved knows it's not on the up and up, but guys like saws and we're having fun.
But the opportunists aren't all in China. Goofs like Bed Tee, and others who see an opportunity to build and then sell these kits are opening a serious can of worms for themselves. They are now the "manufacturer", and they assume all of the liabilities involved. Both in the lack of proper certifications, as well as the liability for serious injury by a saw user. As a Husky/Jonny dealer, I'm under the umbrella of their legal certifications and protection. Anyone selling the kit saws is completely on their own.
Don't get me wrong. These saws are a new and different thing, cheap fun, and pure entertainment for anyone in the saw hobby. I'm not trying to shoot any of it down. But everyone playing in this arena should be aware of the realities involved.
i know down to the last fastener what i'm buying and don't care these saws are cake to work on I've been having fun with a 58cc chinese saw
- Local time
- 4:01 AM
- User ID
- 568
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2016
- Messages
- 32,114
- Reaction score
- 182,360
- Location
- Wv
You're just jealous of his skill and stature as a saw builder he said i was too and not to question the masters methods lolApparently he is growing his base of "disciples" as he calles them....
Time to move on.......
He did seem to get angry when i mentioned a different source for saws idk he's a +×÷%
- Local time
- 3:01 AM
- User ID
- 1377
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2016
- Messages
- 31,064
- Reaction score
- 194,182
- Location
- Northwoods of Wisconsin
Ten years ago I was hollering at the roof tops on buying American and that buying Chinese goods was bad for the country, nobody was listening. Now fast forward to today and am buying stuff from China(and other country's) left and right. There is no more made in America, Robert McCulluch has been gone for some time now, wish he was still with us, but he's not. So, quite a fine pickle I find myself in. So, what to do? Way I figure it, if I do nothing I can help no one, if I buy parts from China at least I'm doing something. I know the back and forth with the right and wrong of it all, been torturing myself with just that very thing for quite some time.
One thing changed my mind, a young fella I know came to me for a saw, he had been using a little Craftsman 40cc to do his firewood. He picked out a saw that I did not have for sale, as it was more AM than original. I thought he would just look at it and I would find something similar for him, let him cut with it, and he had a smile from ear to ear, how can I tell the guy no at this point. After telling him multiple times what that saw was made of trying to change his mind, he wanted that saw, so away it went. This is the very thing I set out to do in the first place, fix old Pro saws and put them into firewood service.
Now we get into these ALL AM builds, personally I'm letting a few friends and family know I can build one for them if they like otherwise, it's not something I would feel totally comfortable with quite yet for Joe Q Public. I think it will be great fun for myself, just to see what sinks and what swims. This will help me with my endeavor of repairing saws with AM parts, as it will greatly expand the R&D I've been doing. I also don't think AM parts saws can relate to a whole saw of Chinese design.
This summer I had a large pile of OEM parts and they were from every corner if the globe including China. Very few were from the Parent country of the company even, none of it was from America, So when it comes down to it, Putting foreign made parts in a foreign made saw is not a really big deal to me any longer. What is a big deal is making peoples lives better, can I do it with these kit saws? I'm not sure, it would be a special case scenario for sure. I had to tell a good friend that I did not think it was a good idea to sell his old all original saw for one of these new ones as he would be taking a big hit in value when the kit saw is used. Lots of ins and outs to think about here, one thing I would like to see is, it kept fun, that is the one thing we should be sticking and staying with is having fun. SS
One thing changed my mind, a young fella I know came to me for a saw, he had been using a little Craftsman 40cc to do his firewood. He picked out a saw that I did not have for sale, as it was more AM than original. I thought he would just look at it and I would find something similar for him, let him cut with it, and he had a smile from ear to ear, how can I tell the guy no at this point. After telling him multiple times what that saw was made of trying to change his mind, he wanted that saw, so away it went. This is the very thing I set out to do in the first place, fix old Pro saws and put them into firewood service.
Now we get into these ALL AM builds, personally I'm letting a few friends and family know I can build one for them if they like otherwise, it's not something I would feel totally comfortable with quite yet for Joe Q Public. I think it will be great fun for myself, just to see what sinks and what swims. This will help me with my endeavor of repairing saws with AM parts, as it will greatly expand the R&D I've been doing. I also don't think AM parts saws can relate to a whole saw of Chinese design.
This summer I had a large pile of OEM parts and they were from every corner if the globe including China. Very few were from the Parent country of the company even, none of it was from America, So when it comes down to it, Putting foreign made parts in a foreign made saw is not a really big deal to me any longer. What is a big deal is making peoples lives better, can I do it with these kit saws? I'm not sure, it would be a special case scenario for sure. I had to tell a good friend that I did not think it was a good idea to sell his old all original saw for one of these new ones as he would be taking a big hit in value when the kit saw is used. Lots of ins and outs to think about here, one thing I would like to see is, it kept fun, that is the one thing we should be sticking and staying with is having fun. SS
- Local time
- 4:01 AM
- User ID
- 568
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2016
- Messages
- 32,114
- Reaction score
- 182,360
- Location
- Wv
i buy or build what i can afford to if it's a good enough i will tell the timber guys i know if not i fix what i use anyway and will cut with them.
Spike60
Here For The Long Haul!
- Local time
- 4:01 AM
- User ID
- 835
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2016
- Messages
- 1,916
- Reaction score
- 16,435
- Location
- Ulster County, NY
THAT, is a sensational post. Absolutely first class.
Some additional perspective: Fixing those old pro saws and putting them into firewood service is way better than putting them in the dumpster. And in many cases, the financial justification to do that can only be made by using AM parts. And it's a win for the customer, cause he's better off with a rebuilt pro saw, than another 40cc box store junker. Many people who need a decent firewood saw, can't afford to buy something new that truly meets their needs. So, there is definitely a place for this stuff in the real world, not just here in the enthusiast arena.
