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Automatic Chain Sharpener - Under $300

angelo c

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Hey guys, I've got some good news for the member of OPE:

What I'd like to do is give an FP1000 to you guys, the members of OPE, starting with @Philbert. It's clear a lot of you are interested in seeing this thing work and want to do comparison tests, and I should facilitate that. Here's how this is going to work and some things I want to make clear:

1. I'm going to ship one to Philbert, since it's really clear you guys want one in his hands first.
2. After he's done, I'll leave it up to you guys to come up with the rules for how to best pass it around. You guys can come up with a method for this. (That means figuring out how long each member is allowed to have it for, shipping it to each other, making sure no one walks off with it, maybe coming up with a West to East coast path of efficiency to cut down on shipping costs between members, etc.)
3. At the 6 month mark, we'll send a shipping label to the last person who has it to ship it to a small group or organization that could best use this machine to do some good. I can talk to you guys about where it should go and how it can do some good, like maybe a local volunteer group that does trimming and cutting to prevent wildfire spread.
4. During this time, TEMCo will be providing our usual technical and customer service: if it breaks or parts are needed on someone's turn, we'll ship that person those parts.

I also want to make clear that TEMCo is doing this because we think you guys are more than capable of providing us technical feedback. We've heard you guys loud and clear about skip teeth, 058 and 063, square grinds, and some other features you would like added. Having the current version in your hands will allow you to make more insightful criticisms about the particulars of the current design. Ideally, everyone who gets the demo will provide TEMCo and more importantly the rest of the forum feedback about their own unique experience with the FP1000. I also think this process, including donating it at the end, will dissuade you guys from thinking any one review is a shill.

That being said, I'm really excited to try this out with you guys. Please let me know once you guys have agreed upon rules and a system that would best facilitate the demo of the FP1000 between members. If this is agreeable to everyone, and when I see that a reasonable system is in place, I will ship one out to @Philbert.

that is just flat out awesome of you Gun.

I propose that @Definitive Dave jump in here and offer to take this grinder on "tour" with him( at some point-After @Philbert) as he probably does the most "traveling" to GTG's and there abouts.
 

jakethesnake

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So if this sneaky thing runs through and counts five cutters and memorizes how far apart they are.

Why can’t he understand on a standard full skip. It’s the same concept He just has to go a lil further.

Is that like out of calibration or beyond what he understands.


Oh and yeah this thing is a him. I’ve decided.
 

KiwiBro (deleted)

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Hey guys, I've got some good news for the member of OPE:

What I'd like to do is give an FP1000 to you guys, the members of OPE, starting with @Philbert. It's clear a lot of you are interested in seeing this thing work and want to do comparison tests, and I should facilitate that.
Fantastic news. Thanks for this Gun, and Temco.
As you've saved me $50, I've donated that to the Witmer family's raffle/fundraiser on your behalf. So, you're in the prize draw now ;) Good luck.

Being on the other side of the planet, will leave it up to everyone else to sort out how the travelling demo will work. I do however look forward to reading what members here think of it, starting with first and foremost Philbert.

Thanks again.
 

Philbert

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What I'd like to do is give an FP1000 to you guys, the members of OPE, starting with @Philbert. . . . when I see that a reasonable system is in place, I will ship one out to @Philbert.

Thank you Gun.

Send it to me and we will get this ball rolling (I will PM you my address).

My recommendations are:
- established OPE members;
- especially those who have expressed an interest in this thread;
- who commit to giving the product a fair, unbiased evaluation;
- and commit to sharing their experiences, comments and recommendations in this thread (positive and negative);
- who actually run chain that this machine accommodates (3/8 low profile ('PICCO'), .325, full sized 3/8 pitch; 0.043 and 0.050 gauge);
- who agree to ship the machine to the next person at their own expense (up to $30?);
- who live in the US (sorry guys: even shipping to Canada gets expensive and complicated, and the AC adaptor is for 120V US).

Since TEMCo retains ownership until the end, I will ask Gun to approve the list.

I would want to keep the unit for a few weeks, since evaluation will be done on the side. Limited cutting going on right now (winter in Minnesota!), but I do have 'a few' different chains to try it on. No GTGs planned for this time of year either, but I might be able to show it to some other folks informally.

Thoughts?

Philbert
 

jakethesnake

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Thank you Gun.

Send it to me and we will get this ball rolling (I will PM you my address).

My recommendations are:
- established OPE members;
- especially those who have expressed an interest in this thread;
- who commit to giving the product a fair, unbiased evaluation;
- and commit to sharing their experiences, comments and recommendations in this thread (positive and negative);
- who actually run chain that this machine accommodates (3/8 low profile ('PICCO'), .325, full sized 3/8 pitch; 0.043 and 0.050 gauge);
- who agree to ship the machine to the next person at their own expense (up to $30?);
- who live in the US (sorry guys: even shipping to Canada gets expensive and complicated, and the AC adaptor is for 120V US).

Since TEMCo retains ownership until the end, I will ask Gun to approve the list.

I would want to keep the unit for a few weeks, since evaluation will be done on the side. Limited cutting going on right now (winter in Minnesota!), but I do have 'a few' different chains to try it on. No GTGs planned for this time of year either, but I might be able to show it to some other folks informally.

Thoughts?

Philbert
Yeah. Ship it to Chevy next. That sucka can’t file anyhow.
 

GunTemco

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So if this sneaky thing runs through and counts five cutters and memorizes how far apart they are.

Why can’t he understand on a standard full skip. It’s the same concept He just has to go a lil further.

Is that like out of calibration or beyond what he understands.


Oh and yeah this thing is a him. I’ve decided.

It doesn't have in its programming the ability to understand any variation of full skips and semi skips. Lets say we have it count 5 cuts, and it went: cutter, cutter, skip, cutter, cutter. A human brain can infer the next link up is a skip, but the computer can't. Even if we had it count to 6, what if you had a chain with a skip link between every 3? Don't worry, we're working on this!


I'm glad you guys think the traveling demo is a good idea. I'll give this a night or two to make sure everyone's got some solid ideas on making sure you guys have a good set of rules in place. Once everyone's two cents are tossed in, and everyone is agreement, I'll get this going.

Philbert, please e-mail your address so I can put it on file as well.
 

jakethesnake

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I guess what I’m sorta saying is on a full skip chain if you blow that picture up There is nothing more than a regular Ol sequence No cutter cutter skip Just cutter skip cutter skip 6BE1C040-8F8A-4007-8DA2-B8C1E919DD64.jpeg
 

jakethesnake

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3CD4D22B-C407-43A6-B9FF-A128D32F7C8A.jpeg Here we are full skip. Better picture. It’s cutter two blanks cutter two blanks. All the way around. No deviation. Is there any chance that there device you’ve built is actually smarter than we have given him credit for?
Now this is 105 drives. So all around on a full skip 105 it’s remains the same.
 

jakethesnake

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I do understand gun you’ve said it can’t do full skip. 10/4 on that. But with full skip. It’s just spaced further apart. If I was building that grinder I’d be more concerned about it learning full skip which to me would be easier to program than a semi skip sequence. Semi skip is used but nearly to the extent as full
 

jakethesnake

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Also if you’re working on designing it to do semi skip chains I think that would be a waste of time for you guys. No one uses that stuff. Full skip or standard. Semi skip isn’t really all that easy to even find.
 

KiwiBro (deleted)

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Magnet clipped to the chain. Grinder does a full rotation of the loop, and a sensor maps every cutter and if left or right, before starting the grinding.

Won't matter how many links, what skip sequence, if a cutter has been busted off, if double cutters, etc.

Grinder shuts down automatically, because it knows when it has done a full chain loop rotation when the magnet is sensed.

Easier said than done but mapping the chains like this covers almost every base, rather than the programming trying to mimic what it hasn't even mapped.
 

Skeans1

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I’d be interested when there’s a version for doing harvester chains that would be a huge bonus as well as the odd sequence with a double left or right at the beginning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

jakethesnake

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I’d be interested when there’s a version for doing harvester chains that would be a huge bonus as well as the odd sequence with a double left or right at the beginning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think it can handle double left or rights
 

MarkEagleUSA

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But with full skip. It’s just spaced further apart.
I think that spacing is the problem. It looks to me like the indexing mechanism doesn't currently have enough travel to get behind the next cutter in a skip sequence in order to advance it.

 

jakethesnake

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I think that spacing is the problem. It looks to me like the indexing mechanism doesn't currently have enough travel to get behind the next cutter in a skip sequence in order to advance it.

I’m seeing now. I didn’t watch the video. Short armed little fella
 

Cat 525

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nts directly

















Also, most importantly: what helps us grow and make a better product is your technical criticism. I've read a lot so far, and I am truly grateful. Please, please, continue to comment, ask questions, and make suggestions based on your particular headaches you've experienced with automatic (or any, really) chain sharpener. I want all of you to know that we take technical criticism very seriously and read and consider every single one. We want to improve the FP1000 and keep it affordable so that you don't have to break the bank just so that you can quickly get back to doing the honest and hard work all of you do.



Thanks for your positive impression, and we're glad that you found the videos. We think the build quality is great, but within one year of your purchase, should you find that the FP1000 is not as durable as you'd like, parts fail, or you're just not happy with it: we have a one year no-questions-asked return policy. We'll even cover the return shipping.




Heck yeah! Getting a good raker profile for your particular situation is arguably just as important as sharp cutters. Don't neglect them!




Hey those are some respectable brands and good sharpeners. If you already have an automatic sharpener that works for you, that's awesome! We think that there's honor in working with your hands, and we're just glad you're able to do that whether it is or it isn't with our products. Thanks for your hard work! If in the future you're interested in having some TEMCo products, we'll be there to help.





Because of the way the grinding armature moves on an axis, the FP1000 will only do a round grind. I've seen an automatic square grinder before - I forget the brand the model of the top of my head. I think it costs a pretty penny, though. Just curious: what are some of the reasons you guys want/need a square grind?





That is correct - it'll do 43 and 50 only. We've read and heard from a lot of people asking for it to do larger chains, and though I'm not at liberty to discuss R&D, I can note that you guys have been heard loud and clear.






You guys should just try it out! We think once you get a few chains through it, you'll absolutely love it. Gary's right: you can't beat that guarantee, and we offer it because we stand behind all our products: it's a one year no-questions-asked return policy and one year warranty. That means if you need parts, need a replacement, or just want to return it 11 months and 2 weeks from when you purchased it, we'll pay for a shipping label to send it back to us and give you a full refund.




Hmmm...





I am able to note that we are working on this. The reason we're developing our own proprietary wheels for this is because we aren't really happy with the tolerances on other CBN wheels. Because a CBN wheel is typically a hefty hunk of mass and must be on a relatively small spindle spinning at a pretty high RPM, any axial or radial runout or it not being concentric will cause the machine to vibrate. Developing our own wheel can better control for the situation of customers going out and getting out of spec wheels and wondering why their machine just walked itself off the bench.





We're glad you're happy with this price point, but please note it will not be at this price point for long.




I want to be completely transparent with you: TEMCo Industrial LLC is an American company. The R&D for improvements, design, marketing, sales, order fulfillment, etc. are all proudly done here in Fremont, California. Even the time taken to respond to your guys' questions and comments is paying for an American job (me!). The manufacturing, and only the manufacturing, is done in China. We do this in order to keep the cost of the machine down, which allows us to pass those savings on to the customer, while also leaving a margin to pay all of our hard-working American employees. We also work directly with manufacturing to maintain our standards, so we're not sacrificing quality for cost.




Thanks for the comments. Some of the responses to these comments were made above, so I'll spare this post the extra volume and refer you to them.

It definitely is a challenging task to get all the right engineering for all the right features while keeping costs down. The reason we want to further develop the automatic technology for chain sharpening is that a human hand needs experience to get consistently even cuts, especially for taking down rakers. (Hey, how many of you have done a manual grind and had the chainsaw do the arc cut of shame?) A go/no-go piece of plastic won't get the type of precision an automatic sharpener can, especially when you've got a mound of chains to get through and you're already tired and hungry, but your hands are dirty and you realize you're out of deli meat for a sandwich, so now you're pissed and hungry . The FP1000 doesn't get hungry, it doesn't get tired, and does a consistently good cut every time.

It does need a bit of calibration, though, and we do admit that it does currently have some limitations. However, the reason I'm here is to listen to what you guys think those limitations are and to report to our engineers in R&D about what we can do about it. When we're through, we expect to have an even better sharpener and hope to keep its low price point so that no one here has to break the bank just to buy it.[/QUOTE]
Hello everyone - I'm back from the holiday break. Hope everyone here had a great break. Who here cut down their own Christmas tree? Show of hands?



We'll have to do some extra market research on this. It looks like several other people here want it, especially at this price point. As a business, though, I have to consider how many people want it, and whether that interest will cover research, engineering, planning, tooling, etc.




Thank you for the welcome, and I'm glad I'm among people who are truly passionate about chains. Looks like I'm among like-minded people - most the guys here at TEMCo are also pretty obsessive and scrutinizing about tools and equipment. Just the other day we were discussing the nuances of cutting teeth profiles on conduit knock out punches. That's why the most valuable thing to us is technical criticism - it really helps us work on the product and work out the nuances. So long as there is interest, there will always be new versions of this product, and what fuels that progress are communities like this.

I've noticed that a lot of people are interested in demoing the product, and I can be transparent about this point: that price is currently at a demo price. The FP1000 is sort of in a "beta" phase. What does that mean? First, we have a limited run of them. Second, we have it set at slightly lower price point. We're doing this to test the market: Do people even want them? What do they like or dislike? What do they wanted added or taken away? Are there any technical issues? I'm personally calling customers and asking how it's going, logging their responses, and also resolving any technical issues they might be having. I'm tracking common user errors and seeing how design changes might prevent them. Also, if there are hardware issues, I ship out parts at no cost to the customer. Because we're a small company, this process allows us to work from the ground up, instead of investing way too much money into machinery and selling everyone an over-engineered and therefore over-priced unit. We want to hit a sweet spot for what you guys need and want at a low price point.

I just wanted to make all of that clear so that there's no confusion about what we're doing.





This is an interesting idea, but maybe this is something we can show in a video we can make for you guys? That way, everyone can just see how it works. Hmm, might be something I can quickly story board, shoot, edit, and post. Would you guys even care about a demo video, or would you just think it's marketing BS?

On that note, is there any in the videos or listing you guys want to see made about the product?






Glad to be here! Thanks for the warm welcome.




You make a convincing business/marketing point. You guys have really got us thinking about this, because what's at contention with this concept is basically whether the cost of tooling up to make an automatic square grind sharpener justifies the PR for Joe Schmo to buy the round grind sharpener. What I'll need to look into is the spin up cost for this. This takes time - please allow me to carefully look into this.




Thanks for the welcome and your interest in our grinder. We're glad see to a range of interest in this unit, from people who use it several times a day, to people who only occasionally use it. It makes us happy to see it doing so much work for you guys.

Reply #1: Our no-questions-asked warranty and return policy applies to everyone, including our international customers! How was you Christmas in Croatia, sir?

Reply #2: There is a clamping mechanism in the tracks.
 

MarkEagleUSA

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Hey guys, I've got some good news for the member of OPE:

What I'd like to do is give an FP1000 to you guys, the members of OPE, starting with @Philbert. It's clear a lot of you are interested in seeing this thing work and want to do comparison tests, and I should facilitate that. Here's how this is going to work and some things I want to make clear:

1. I'm going to ship one to Philbert, since it's really clear you guys want one in his hands first.
2. After he's done, I'll leave it up to you guys to come up with the rules for how to best pass it around. You guys can come up with a method for this. (That means figuring out how long each member is allowed to have it for, shipping it to each other, making sure no one walks off with it, maybe coming up with a West to East coast path of efficiency to cut down on shipping costs between members, etc.)
3. At the 6 month mark, we'll send a shipping label to the last person who has it to ship it to a small group or organization that could best use this machine to do some good. I can talk to you guys about where it should go and how it can do some good, like maybe a local volunteer group that does trimming and cutting to prevent wildfire spread.
4. During this time, TEMCo will be providing our usual technical and customer service: if it breaks or parts are needed on someone's turn, we'll ship that person those parts.

I also want to make clear that TEMCo is doing this because we think you guys are more than capable of providing us technical feedback. We've heard you guys loud and clear about skip teeth, 058 and 063, square grinds, and some other features you would like added. Having the current version in your hands will allow you to make more insightful criticisms about the particulars of the current design. Ideally, everyone who gets the demo will provide TEMCo and more importantly the rest of the forum feedback about their own unique experience with the FP1000. I also think this process, including donating it at the end, will dissuade you guys from thinking any one review is a shill.

That being said, I'm really excited to try this out with you guys. Please let me know once you guys have agreed upon rules and a system that would best facilitate the demo of the FP1000 between members. If this is agreeable to everyone, and when I see that a reasonable system is in place, I will ship one out to @Philbert.
This is an awesome gesture on your part Gun!
 
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