High Quality Chainsaw Bars Husqvarna Toys

Sugihara vs. Tsumura pricewise

Derf

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Oh Jeff, I think you have some image of a group of eggheads with degrees on their office wall present their carefully calculated specs to the manufacturing department, and a product is just made that way for the company without any other input or weighting. And if anyone questions the authority of the engineers' decision, that they, being alpha-male types and secure in their own mental superiority, will confidently defend their position having already considered what is best for the end user of the product.

Maybe initially it was, which is why they started with a 5 rivet tip. It seems like a solid standard. Oregon uses a 5 rivet tip on their RSN bars. Stihl uses 5 and 6 rivets on their E and ES bars. Canon superbar uses 6 rivets. GB uses 6 rivets (on the Australian made CN40 and PowerTip +, and Pro Top lines). SugiHara uses 5 rivets on their RSN bars. So does Laser, Frostbite, Forrester, Windsor... Carlton/Sandvik uses either 5 or 6 rivets. GB did move to 4-rivet tips on their lighter-weight Arbor Tech and Arbor Pro bars. And many laminated bars use 4-rivet tips... So maybe you can 'get by' with a 4 rivet tip. There is some user data out in the field on how those products last.

And maybe at the Tsumura company, the CEO wanted to buy a new house and wished his company sold more product, and the accounting department said they could increase shareholder profits if they lowered overhead. And the advertising department did a survey and said people had trouble justifying or differentiating the high price product next to SugiHara. And the sales department said they really weren't selling that many replacement bar tips, because the customer was wearing out the rails before the tips.. and so one day the engineers were told by upper management that the CFO would like to change the product to use less parts, and be made faster. Cheaper.

So the engineer is now asked not if a 5 rivet tip is better than a 4 rivet tip, but if a 4 rivet tip will last at least half as long? And the engineers say that most of the strain on the bearing in the tip comes from lateral force when plunge/bore cutting, but during normal felling, limbing and bucking there is little more additional stress on the bearing, and a 4 rivet tip should be "sufficient enough" in those conditions. So the CFO asks the marketing department about the demographic they are targeting, does a quick calculation (guess) that most of their customers using a chainsaw with one of their lightweight bars don't often push the bar into a tree during felling, and tells the engineer to design a version of the bar with 4 rivets and send it down to the manufacturing floor. The sole engineer in the engineering department, who actually has no support team and is not actually an alpha-male, knows who signs his checks, so he does.:BangHead:

Now, who knows if that story is true... maybe the engineers were asked to make the product even better somehow and changed the metallurgy of the rivets and changed suppliers, started using some fancy new hardening process on those 4 rivets making them each 125% stronger than a normal rivet, so they can get away with fewer of them?:nusenuse: Maybe.

You keep on using your Tsumura lightweight bars, Jeff. I'm sure you'll be fine. But as for your ideas that engineers are dictating the best decisions all the time, you're just being naive.
 

KiwiBro (deleted)

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Has anyone compared the weight of the 36" reduced weight bars from brands like sugi, tsumura, stihl, oregon? I suspect the sugi and tsumura would be lighter but also a tad stiffer than the others. Happy to be proven wrong. I essentially would like the lightest without being too whippy, quality 42" bar possible. Won't be plunging or boring with it but might be tickling up facecuts with the nose from time to time. The rest of the time it's standard issue felling and bucking. I'm not enjoying the solid 42" bar that came with my 395. It's fine just I'm not strong enough especially on steep hillsides. Get pretty tired even before the end of the day.
 

Dub11

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Has anyone compared the weight of the 36" reduced weight bars from brands like sugi, tsumura, stihl, oregon? I suspect the sugi and tsumura would be lighter but also a tad stiffer than the others. Happy to be proven wrong. I essentially would like the lightest without being too whippy, quality 42" bar possible. Won't be plunging or boring with it but might be tickling up facecuts with the nose from time to time. The rest of the time it's standard issue felling and bucking. I'm not enjoying the solid 42" bar that came with my 395. It's fine just I'm not strong enough especially on steep hillsides. Get pretty tired even before the end of the day.

http://opeforum.com/threads/guide-bar-data-and-picture-thread.1269/
 

KiwiBro (deleted)

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Skeans1

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Wow, thank you. I had forgot about that. And thanks Redbull for putting that wonderful thread together with all that info.

So, in 36", it looks like the lightest are going to be tsumura, still es light, and oregon RW. Which of those three is stiffest and do readers think the same relative order of weights and stiffness could be extrapolated to 42"?

42+ I’d quit worrying about weight and go for stiffness especially if you want to pop under cut faces out for 42+ I won’t run anything but a cannon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

RedGas

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Or maybe the engineers at the companies that still use five or six rivets said, "You know, four rivets is plenty strong and we could increase our profit margin by switching to four" but the marketing guys said, "All the other big mfgrs are still using five or six rivets and people won't buy bars with four rivets, even though they are plenty strong enough" ... so five or six rivets remained the norm.

Kind of like shotgun shells. The "high brass" or "low brass" is a non-issue anymore, except for purposes of quickly visually distinguishing heavier-load shells from lighter-load shells – in fact, they could make them with NO brass or metal at all on the head – but they would likely lose market share if they did that, as well as spawn long Internet debates about "how much brass is needed" when the correct answer is "None."
 
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hseII

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Wow, thank you. I had forgot about that. And thanks Redbull for putting that wonderful thread together with all that info.

So, in 36", it looks like the lightest are going to be tsumura, still es light, and oregon RW. Which of those three is stiffest and do readers think the same relative order of weights and stiffness could be extrapolated to 42"?

Steer Clear of the Oregon RW in that length.

Tsumura is your friend.
 

Derf

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Or maybe the engineers at the companies that still use five or six rivets said, "You know, four rivets is plenty strong and we could increase our profit margin by switching to four" but the marketing guys said, "All the other big mfgrs are still using five or six rivets and people won't buy bars with four rivets, even though they are plenty strong enough" ... so five or six rivets remained the norm.

Kind of like shotgun shells. The "high brass" or "low brass" is a non-issue anymore, except for purposes of quickly visually distinguishing heavier-load shells from lighter-load shells – in fact, they could make them with NO brass or metal at all on the head – but they would likely lose market share if they did that, as well as spawn long Internet debates about "how much brass is needed" when the correct answer is "None."

That’s a great, tongue in cheek, response. Thank you!

Of course, the analogy breaks down a bit because the high brass / low brass dates back to the 60’s when the hulls were made of cardboard. Now it’s just a holdover marketing term from olden days to help identify a power level. Since the changeover to plastic hulls (new engineering specs) you get a naming convention and legacy based on tradition and marketing.

With the number of metal rivets I’m not sure that it’s a legacy holdover thing since we haven’t used some different material. But you could be right. I’m done beating this horse. Carry on.
 

RI Chevy

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I think I get it now.
Kinda like when the engineers at Hooskievarna decided a plastic wire tie could replace a more expensive metal clamp on those intake partitions.
It's all coming to me now.
20/20.
 

Derf

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And THEN you had to go and say THAT!
(Them’s fight’n words!)

S.M.H.
Wow, Jeff... just wow.
;-)
 

Dub11

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I think I get it now.
Kinda like when the engineers at Hooskievarna decided a plastic wire tie could replace a more expensive metal clamp on those intake partitions.
It's all coming to me now.
20/20.

Ya done *f-worded up the bar thread:facepalm:
 

RI Chevy

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The understanding of engineers suddenly became 20/20. That's all. Just stating fact.
 

KiwiBro (deleted)

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Make your own RW bar.
Funny you should mention that. I ran the numbers on buying a few solids and getting them CNC machined out to match the RW pattern they use. It didn't really stack up. Needed about 50 bars, all sold at the approx RW prices to get close to breaking even. So I shelved that idea. This was about a year ago.
 

Dub11

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Funny you should mention that. I ran the numbers on buying a few solids and getting them CNC machined out to match the RW pattern they use. It didn't really stack up. Needed about 50 bars, all sold at the approx RW prices to get close to breaking even. So I shelved that idea. This was about a year ago.

Just get a good drillbit slather it in some bar oil and start plugging away. Then fill with epoxy.
 
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